tk 9 age

Tomb Kings

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Shino
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tk 9 age

Post autor: Shino »

Temat do wspolnych rozkmin i preciekow.

Na raize samo tk sie zmienia o 180 stopni. mozemy maszerowac, ale nie wslkrzeszamy sie tak szybko. Dostalismy kilka fajnych grywalnych monsterow, a cascet z maszynki do robienia kostek sie zmienil w maszynke do niszczenia potworow (jego strzal jest op).

Co wystawiacie i co jest do poprawy.
takze pierwsze przecieki by ślivek:
ślivek pisze:Proszę :)
Jeśli by był temat to bym wrzucił w odpowiedni ale nie ma tego w dziale TK
UD - WEEK 2 proposal

@fjugin, @el rey, @arthain, @Sir_Joker, @lagge

Hello guys

The things left to debate from the first week we will address in the third week in order to reduce the amount of things you have to consider due the luxury of not having many things left to do in the design of the Army Book.

What we have for you this week is an opening to diversify the ways the Undying Dynasties army can be played and to open different modeling themes to the players of the 9th Age.

Rather then going the road of customising our characters we are suggesting the customisation of the entire army. This is something the players of UD have been asking for years and since this project began we have been repeatedly asked if the UD army will be getting something like the Bloodlines or Gifts of the Dark Gods. This is our solution to this plea.


The choice would be made while collecting the army and would have to be noted on the army roster. Three out of four options are visually distinct, while the fourth is a sub-option of one of the three to provide players with a choice that has been asked for years, but in such a manner that it remains balanced.

The Pyramid Host - is exactly what the army book provides, the Undead "Egyptians" in all their glory.

The Barrow Legion - is an homage to the background that has existed for years and even had an independent army list, basically the Undead "Bronze/Iron Age Europeans" with better armour, but with reduced flexibility, mobility and unit choice, also allowing people to play old school Undead without Vampires.

The Terracotta Army - is from the theme perspective something completely new and an amazing area to expand the Undead theme, not to mention GW never dipped their fingers into it, making this I think uniquely our own in the world of fantasy mass battle systems, these are Undead "Chinese" with better resilience, but with reduced flexibility, mobility and unit choice, which in addition to that have a harder time being healed.

The Masons Menagerie - is a sub option of the Pyramid Host, which comes with a powerful thing, but is offset with the fact the army is limited to a Level 2 Wizards and no Mummies in the army. It is meant to provide a different gaming experience, where the flexibility of the main list is exchanged for brute force. But one that is still limited by the number of units that can be taken per each army section.


As per previously discussed guidelines the Barrow Legion and the Terracotta Army have been designed to be slightly weaker then the Pyramid Host and should be presented to the players as a flavour option for the time being. The results they report in would allows us in a year's time to put them on the equal footing with the Pyramid Host. But we should plainly explain to them the focus is on the Pyramid Host and will remain so for the time being.


DESIGN CHANGE FOR THE SECOND WEEK

ARMIES OF UNDEATH
When writing your army roster before the game you must select one of these options to represent what kind of Undying Dynasty force your army is.
Make sure that models visually match the theme your army represents.


THE PYRAMID HOST
[flavour text by the B&A team to be inserted]
Use the army list presented in this book with no alterations.


THE TERRACOTTA ARMY
[flavour text by the B&A team to be inserted]
Use the army list presented in this book with the following alterations:

Skeletons, Skeleton Cavalry, and Necropolis Guard must be upgraded with +1 Toughness, -1 Initiative and Undead Construct Special Rule for +2 pts/model
All other units without Undead Construct Special Rule must be upgraded with +1 Toughness, -1 Initiative and Undead Construct Special Rule for +10 pts/model

Great Vultures, Scarab Swarm and Winged Reapers may not be taken in the army, nor can the Underground Ambush Special Rule be used by any unit in the army. Units with Undead Construct Special Rule cannot use Free Reform Special Rule.


THE BARROW LEGION
[flavour text by the B&A team to be inserted]
Use the army list presented in this book with the following alterations:

Skeletons may be upgraded with Heavy Armour for +2 pts/model; may take Halberds for +2 pts/model
Skeleton Cavalry may be upgraded with Heavy Armour for +3 pts/model; Lance for +3 pts/model
Skeleton Chariots may be upgraded with Heavy Armour for +5 pts/model; Halberds for +5 pts/model
Necropolis Guard may be upgraded with Heavy Armour for +2 pts/model
Scarb Swarm must be upgraded with Ethereal Special Rule for +15 pts/model

Battle Sphinx, Dread Sphinx and Royal Sphinx may not be taken in the army, nor can the Underground Ambush or Scout Special Rules be used by any unit in the army. Units with Heavy Armour cannot use Free Reform Special Rule.


THE MASON'S MENAGERIE
[flavour text by the B&A team to be inserted]
Uses the Pyramid Host option. If a Tomb Architect is your army General the Shabties are a Core rather than a Special choice.

Considering nothing apart from the flavour text would be lost, this last sub-option can be removed and streamlined by turning it into a Special Rule for the Tomb Architect.





BALANCE CHANGES FOR THE SECOND WEEK

Great Vultures - following observation of played army lists for the moment we would like to increase the cost of the initial unit from 50 points to 60 points.

Dread Sphinx - I am not sure if this is just a balance or also a design change. If it goes against the rules please ignore it and we will address it in one of the coming weeks. Following reports from the community and the personal observations of the AS and the ABC we would like to return the Toughness of the Sphinx back to 8 and increase the cost from 200 to 225 to match the resilience and cost of the Battle Sphinx.


Combat Characters - In comparison to the Characters in the other Undead Army Book we have a feeling they are overcosted, and their cost has been repeatedly commented on by the members of the community that have posted on the forum.

In the the quote we provide the direct comparison between our three combat character and their direct counterparts and would like to petition a reduction of 15 points to all three.


M WS BS S T W I A Ld Pts
Pharaoh 4 6 3 5 5 4 3 4 10 175
Count 6 7 5 5 5 3 7 5 10 200



Pharaoh: Fear, Flammable, Mummy's Curse, Undying Will, Light Armour
Count: Fear, Hunger (6+), Vampiric, Level 1 Wizard


M WS BS S T W I A Ld Pts
Nomarch 4 5 3 4 5 3 3 3 9 115
Baron 6 6 4 5 4 2 6 4 8 80


Nomarch: Fear, Flammable, Mummy's Curse, Undying Will, Light Armour
Baron: Fear, Hunger (6+), Vampiric


M WS BS S T W I A Ld Pts
Tomb Harbinger 4 4 3 4 5 2 3 3 8 70
Barrow King 4 4 0 4 5 3 4 3 9 80

Tomb Harbinger: Lethal Strike, Poisoned Attacks, Flammable, Undying Will, Royal Guard, Light Armour
Barrow King: Lethal Strike, Multiple Wounds 2 (In, Cav, WB), Not a Leader, Heavy Armour and Shield



There is one final thing which is a concern to us and that is the general utility of Hero choices. At the moment the UD ABC had access to 17 UD Army Lists which have over all taken 51 characters divided as such:

Pharaoh x14
Death Cult Hierarch x18 (more times then there are armies)

Nomarch x4
Death Cult Acolyte x6
Tomb Harbinger x5
Tomb Architect x4

The under representation of Hero characters is evident as is the over representation of the Death Cult Hierarch. The reduction in cost of combat characters might help with that and we will have a possible change for the Nomarch in store for either 3rd or 4th week.

The possible change to the Magic in the Rulebook if it is getting implemented will probably help as well.

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Abrasus
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Post autor: Abrasus »

Bez urazy, bo wiem, że TK teraz nie są w czubie przegięć, ale to wygląda na jakiś kosmiczny wyścig zbrojeń... Stałe porównywanie się do VC, budowanie UD na wzór VC (bloodline?) i dodawanie sryliona nowych zasad to chyba nie miał być kierunek w którym podąża 9th Age? Prędzej potrzebne są nerfy dla innych armii a nie taka Sodoma i Gomora jaka jest tutaj. Krasie niedługo dostaną klany dla rozróżnienia? Wtf...

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Shino
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Post autor: Shino »

chodzi o zwiekszenie roznorodnosci w samym graniu tk. Armia ma mniej jednostek niz inne armie, stad te armie klimatyczne

co do samego poweru armii:
Also keep in mind that the current UD (and EoS) power level is what the RT has in mind for all books, in the end. We won't be more powerful, but some of them will be nerfed. Let's not compare too much with them.

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Abrasus
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Post autor: Abrasus »

Nie chodzi mi o same UD (chociaż skoro są dobrze zbalansowane to po co wywracać to do góry nogami?), tylko o to, że to pokazuje jak bardzo 9th age wchodzi w jeden wielki wyścig zbrojeń... Niedługo rozumienie specjalnych zasad wszystkich armii będzie oznaczało wkucie encyklopedii...

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Stan
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Post autor: Stan »

Zawsze tak było w warhammerze :roll:
Ciekawe zasady armijne, zwłaszcza eteryczne swarmy.

ślivek
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Post autor: ślivek »

UD - WEEK 3 proposal

WEEK 3 - MAGIC

1) REWORK #1 WEEK 1 - Soul Conduit 35 points - UPGRADE FOR THE DEATH CULT HIERARCH
[flavour text to be inserted by the B&A team]
In his own Magic Phase the Undying Dynasties player rolls 7+D3, instead of 2D6 to determine the effects of the Winds of Magic roll. The number of Dispel Dice available to the opposing play is always 6, plus any generated through channeling and other means.

Probability PD.png

POWER DICE - ON THE LEFT

DISPEL DICE - TOP RIGHT
Avg dispel dice is 4,47 vs 6
Median 5 vs 6
Stdev 1,42 vs N/A

PD AND DD DIFFERENCE - LOWER RIGHT
Avg DD difference 2,52 vs 3
Median 2 vs 3
Stdev 1,42 vs 1


The upgrade is linked to the Lord Level Caster rather than the Hierophant in order to ensure that if players want magical reliability they should pay the cost.


2) REWORK #2 WEEK 1 - Unyielding Banner 40 points - PROPOSED
Bound Spell, Power Level 4. Contains Protection of Phatep, which can only be cast on the unit carrying the standard.

Unyielding Banner 40 points - CURRENT
Bound Spell, Power Level 5. Contains Protection of Phatep, which can only be cast on the unit carrying the standard.


Reports from the field show it is not taken due to the nature of the Bound Spells. So rather then changing it completely as we suggested in Week 1 we suggest just PL decrease. And potential price drop following a BB review.



3) STREAMLINING WEEK 3 - Risen - NEW RULE TO STREAMLINE RAISING BETWEEN THE TWO UNDEAD BOOKS
Models with this Special Rule can heal wounds back with No Rest in Death equal to the amount stated in their profile.

This will result in a small change to the Path Attribute wording to accommodate it.

Current Proposed
Characters 1 1
Skeletons D3+1 D3+3
SkeletonCavalry D3+1 D3+2
SkeletonChariots D3+1 D3+1
NecropolisGuard D3+1 D3+1
TombCataphracts 1 1
SandScorpions 1 1
GreatVultures D3+1 D3+1
Shabties 1 1
BattleSphinx 1 1
ScarabSwarms D3+1 D3+3
SandStalkers 1 1
War Colossus 1 1
Soul Colossus 1 1
WingedReapers 1 1
DreadSphinx 1 1
Casket ofPhatep D3+1 1
CharnelCatapult D3+1 1




4) STREAMLINING WEEK 1 - to match the healing change
Current: Book of the Dead (35 pts)
When generation spells the bearer must exchange the Path Attribute of his chosen Path with No Rest In Death Path Attribute from Path of Sands. If already using No Rest In Death, the healing effect is changed from D3+1 to 2D3+1.

Proposed: Book of the Dead (35 pts)
When generation spells the bearer must exchange the Path Attribute of his chosen Path with No Rest In Death Path Attribute from Path of Sands. If already using No Rest In Death, the D3 for healing effect may be re-rolled.




BALANCE and OTHER

1) Charnel Catapult base size change to 100mm due to not fitting on a 75mm base, reduction in cost by 15 pts

2) Soul Colossus reduce cost by 15 pts with the loss of +D3 to cast

3) In order to ensure that there is as little difference in the effectiveness of the Casket on low Ld in comparison to the high Ld armies we propose this rebalancing so that the attack is fair on all

Current Rule: A Casket of Phatep may perform a special shooting attack with the following properties: Range 36”, Armour Piercing (6). This attacks hits automatically. To determine the damage the target suffers, roll a 2D6+2, and subtract the target's unmodified Leadership value. The resulting number is the number of wounds the target suffers.

Proposed Rule: A Casket of Phatep may perform a shooting attack with the following properties: Range 36”, Armour Piercing (6), Multiple Wounds (Ordnance). This attack hits automatically. To determine the damage the target suffers, make a Leadership test on 3D6. If the test is failed the target suffers a wounding hit. Hold your Ground is not allowed against the Wailing Spirits attack. (probably needs better wording but you get the gist of it)


4) Scarab Swarms reduced to max 7 models in a unit to conform to the Skirmish unit size rule


5) Great Vultures reduced max 9 models in a unit to conform to the Skirmish unit size rule


6) Sand Stalkers exchange Skirmish for Free Reform to conform to the Skirmish unit size rule


7) Sandstorm Cloak & Scourge of Kings do not see play, feedback from the field is that they are to expensive for what they bring to the army, could the BB take a look. The Cloak is the main offender as far as the cost goes since most feedback we got is that the players aren't willing to pay more than 25 pts for the flying ability, which is in clear discrepancy with the RB item.


8.) Bow Armed Shabties have been reported as lucklustre, we invite the BB to take a look at them. If they are still found wanting we would propose a couple of solutions to choose from:

Adding Ap(1) to the bow
Increasing BS 2 to 3
Exchanging -1S for -1A as the Bow CC ability




Final Week 4 report will follow this Thursday/Friday and will focus on balance issues.
Obrazek

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Shino
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Post autor: Shino »

czyli z tego co chca zmienic, to cascet bedzie jeszcze lepszy na monstery? jesli kazdy hitma zadawac d3+1 rane a tych aoutowoundujacych hitow ma byc 3d6 - ld?

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Abrasus
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Post autor: Abrasus »

O ile ja rozumiem, to ma być tak, że jak nie zda testu to dostaje 1 autowound z MW(Ordnance).

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Shino
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Post autor: Shino »

to bedzie beznadziejny. bedzie dzialal w praktyce na 4+, czyli troche jak bolec. jednak nie za cene 50 a 115 pkt :/

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Abrasus
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Post autor: Abrasus »

No cele będziesz raczej tak wybierał, że p-stwo niezdania jest duże, więc tak naprawdę będzie to D3+1 autowoundów w nielatające jednostki, D3+2 autowoundów w latające jednostki. Nie jest takie złe, ale koszt chyba faktycznie mogliby do jakiś 90 obniżyć. Z drugiej strony dwa takie, dwie klopy i jak jeszcze Hierotytana mieścisz to się robi niezły młyn.

ślivek
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Post autor: ślivek »

UD - WEEK 2 second draft

Yesterday, 1:40am

New
@fjugin, @arthain @el rey, @Sir_Joker, @lagge

This is our response to your comment and the rework of the ideas which were approved but required further fine tuning.

ARMY CUSTOMISATION

As suggested we are tying the customisation to persona of the Figter Lord, the Undead Monarch.

Therefore we would like to add this line to the Pharaoh's profile

- One Pharaoh in the army must select from the Monarchs of Undeath list


So we would propose the change to this:

MONARCHS OF UNDEATH
When writing your army roster before the game choose kind of Undying Dynasty force your character is leading.
Make sure that models visually match the theme your army represents.


LORD OF THE PYRAMID HOST
[flavour text by the B&A team to be inserted]
Use the army list presented in this book with no alterations.



COMMANDER OF THE TERRACOTTA ARMY
[flavour text by the B&A team to be inserted]
Use the army list presented in this book with the following alterations:

Skeletons, Skeleton Cavalry, and Necropolis Guard must be upgraded with +1 Toughness, -1 Initiative and Undead Construct Special Rule for +2 pts/model
All other units without Undead Construct Special Rule must be upgraded with +1 Toughness, -1 Initiative and Undead Construct Special Rule for +10 pts/model

Great Vultures, Scarab Swarm and Winged Reapers may not be taken in the army, nor can the Underground Ambush Special Rule be used by any unit in the army. Units with Undead Construct Special Rule cannot use Free Reform Special Rule.



MASTER OF THE BARROW LEGION
[flavour text by the B&A team to be inserted]
Use the army list presented in this book with the following alterations:

Skeletons must be upgraded with Heavy Armour for +2 pts/model; may take Halberds for +2 pts/model
Skeleton Cavalry may be upgraded with Heavy Armour for +3 pts/model; may take Lance for +3 pts/model
Skeleton Chariots must be upgraded with Heavy Armour for +5 pts/model; may take Halberds for +5 pts/model
Necropolis Guard must be upgraded with Heavy Armour for +2 pts/model
Scarb Swarm must be upgraded with Ethereal Special Rule for +15 pts/model

Models with Large Target and, or Monstrous Cavalry may not be taken in the army, nor can the Underground Ambush or ScoutSpecial Rules be used by any unit in the army. Units with Heavy Armour cannot use Free Reform Special Rule.



So apart the names the main change is with the Barrow Legion and here is our explanation:

The change was done to further thematically restrict it the option, while still providing some flexibility as is the case with Skeleton Cavalry who are the only unit that isn't forced to upgrade to Heavy Armour since we want to leave the option open for people to use "lighter" cavalry alongside the "heavy" cavalry. The "no sphinxes" limitation was expanded to encompass more things, but in such a way for people to be able to use Scorpion and Shabties as Stalkers and Simulacra from the old Barrow Kings army list. The Sand Stalker slip through this limitation but since they are a Gorgona/Medusa type monsters and fit the "european" mythology we are fine for them to be available. In addition without Underground Ambush they should not cause any imbalances since their use will be somewhat limited.

So in short Heavy Armour obligatory, Big Statues NO, Small Statues OK.

To complete the list of things that needed some more work is a new rule to the Tomb Architect which grew out of the 4th customisation option.


Masons Menagerie: If a Tomb Architect is your army General one unit of Shabties may be taken as a Core rather than a Special choice.

Since the army will not be able to have either of the Lord characters or a Nomarch we feel it is a fair trade off. It is more for theme than any kind of hidden power, though it could give UD armies some edge in smaller games where previously the army was found lacking.



For the final thing we leave our final appeal to examine the cost of our fighting characters (Pharaoh and Nomarch primarily). As was requested of us we provide the comparison between these characters and their peers. We would also like to invite the Balancing Board to take a look at it and see if our proposal of a price reduction is validated.
Obrazek

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eliah91
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Post autor: eliah91 »

Czyli w Terakotowej armii mamy gwardie z T5,WS6 od mumii, S5, hejtem (poison) i regeną na 5+ od necroteka? Good Job!
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Shino
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jak maja wtedy dostac hate?

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eliah91
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Post autor: eliah91 »

Faktycznie milordzie, hate nie dostaną ale mogą dostać +1do hita z birony i przerzut to wound z sandu.
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Okoń
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Post autor: Okoń »

Czy przy użyciu Sweeping Strike bronią Vanquisher Eternal na hity trafiające na 4+ działa ewentualny hate?
Sweeping Strike: All of the model's attacks are
exchanged for: each enemy model in base to base contact
with the wielder suffers an automatic hit, while models
which could make a supporting attack against the
wielder suffer a hit on 4+. These hits have the Lethal
Strike Special Rule
Edit: Dobra, jakby kogoś interesowało, to zapytałem o to na forum 9th age.

Tak jak podejrzewałem, na sweeping strike nie działa hatred, a wybór rodzaju uderzenia (focused lub sweeping) trzeba zadeklarować przed challengami.
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Pocisk
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Post autor: Pocisk »


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Okoń
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Post autor: Okoń »

Dużo zmian. Polepszenie path of sands i book of the dead cieszy. BSB z normalnie działającym hatred też spoko.

Przy redesignie casketu na oldskullowy magiczny support przydałoby się także przywrócić katapultom dużego hita.
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Shino
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Post autor: Shino »

wyczuwam, ze armia pomiedzy marcem i kwietniem bedzie dosc biedna :(

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szczurek
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Post autor: szczurek »

Testowal ktos cos podobnego? Rozpa z zagranicznego tura...

Death Cult Hierarch, General, Hierophant, Magic lvl 4, Dispel Scroll, Path of the Sand -235
Tomb Harbinger, Battle Standard Bearer, Halberd, Banner of the Entombed -164
25 Skeleton Archers, M, S, C -180
24 Skeleton Archers, M, S, C -174
3x5 Skeleton Cavalry, Light Lance -70
5 Skeleton cavalry, Aspen bow -65
2x4 Tomb Cataphracts, Underground ambush, M,S -260
2x3 Sand Stalkers, Underground ambush -170
5 Winged Reapers, Halberds -431
2x1 Charnel Catapult -90

2499
Malowanie figurek ---> szczurek1903@wp.pl
Coolminiornot ---> LINK

chomik
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Post autor: chomik »

siema, zostały mi do sklejenia szkielety piesze w liczbie 32 sztuk i 8 kawalerzystów. I mam dylemat jak ich skleić. Wstępny plan:
2x10 łuczników
12 HW@Shield
Kawaleria FCG i 2xłuk+ 3xHW@Shield
Jakieś lepsze pomysły na skonfigórowanie tego zestawu?

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