Empire the 9th Age
Moderator: #helion#
Re: Empire the 9th Age
Generalnie spoko przeniesienie dzial do specy pozwoli wcisnac w rarach dwie helki I czolg, fast IMHO dobry taki jaki jest, karabiny dla inzynierow sa dobre takie jakie sa, sniper z + 1 to hit oraz potencjalnym + 1 z rozkazu bedzie przegiete, galoper gun spoko pod warunkiem ze nie zmieni sie jego sila ostrzalu. Priest powinien miec Heavy Armour a nie full plate ale ws powinien miec 5
@fjugin @el rey @lagge @arthain @Sir_Joker
Please find below our Week 4 changes, and our reproposals for Week 1 and 2.
MAJOR DESIGN PROPOSAL #4 - ORDERS
There are two main reasons for a redesign on Orders. The first is that our original design intention was mangled in the final 0.9 draft, making it pointless to take two Field Marshals. Given we have intentionally limited each Field Marshal to one upgrade each (in Balance Update 1), this has meant that Infantry armies have overwhelmingly taken Great Tactician (who can give 2 Orders within Inspiring Presence when General). We want to encourage the use of Field Marshals, and as they are really only Hero level for combat, this is obviously going to come via how they synergise with their troops. The second reason is that whilst (as we had predicted to our players) our cavalry is fine in point-to-point combat contexts (sometimes strong, sometimes weak, etc), AllCav armies are looking a little Tier 3, with nothing gluing the separate units together. We have boosted Fanatics slightly, looked to redesign Gunlines, and tweaked Detachments; something similar might be usefully done for Cavalry, and it might be usefully done via the currently redundant mounted Captain option.
Orders
For Orders themselves, the change is simple and not particularly strong, but allows Field Marshals more flexibility. We propose adding something like the following sentence to the beginning of the Orders Special Rule:
"Lord-level Characters with this Special Rule may give Orders to Parent and Support Units within a 6" radius, whilst Hero-level Characters may only give Orders to a Parent or Support Unit they have joined."
This allows a Great Tactician who is not General (in an army led by an Imperial Prince at Ld10, say) to use his 2 Orders - one to his own block, for instance, and one to a supporting unit. It also makes a Seasoned Commander who
Captain
AllCav currently has one supporting Character (Knight Commander) compared to Infantry (Field Marshal, Captain, and the obvious benefits of Clerics), Fanatics (High Cleric, the obvious boost of Hero Clerics, and the fluff support of Inquisitors), and Gunline (Field Marshal and Captain Ordering Light Infantry, and Engineers buffing Warmachines). There is an obvious solution - the Captain can take a mount but currently would never do so as his Orders range is "own unit", and the only units that can take Orders are infantry. We do not propose for a proper Cavalry Order; rather, we propose a buff/option the Captain gives cavalry units he is accompanying, representing the mounted Captain as the Hero equivalent of the Knight Commander.
We propose the Captain gain a unit-only special rule as follows:
"Meet them at the gallop!
When a Cavalry unit the Captain has joined is charged, it may take a Leadership test. If it passes, it also counts as charging in this combat phase."
(If this is felt to be too powerful, a debuff for failure might be added; -1 to CR, or no supporting attacks, or something. I really think that is unnecessary though. It's a 66% chance of success and will often function chiefly as area denial rather than a core part of their fighting strategy.)
As an alternative, or additionally, core knights could gain "Bodyguard (Captain)".
MINOR BALANCE/ETC CHANGES
1) Magical Banner up to 25 pts to Heavy Infantry, re RT's instructions.
2) the trend for Imperial Guard use has been to blocks of Greatswords; not exclusively but significantly. Given the planned Parry nerf, we recommend making HW+S the basic loadout for 9pts, with GWs a swap upgrade for +1pt.
3) Long Rifle to S5 as it's generally thought to be a pointless weapon at this stage
4) Banner of Unity (allowing 2 extra ranks to count for CR) to go from 50 to 35; generally seen as a dud item, not because of the effect, but because of the price. Alternatively, same price, but allow the unit to Overrun/Pursue.
5) If Hellblaster is to increase in price, please instruct us as to what we and Dwarves should do - we would be looking at a 5-10pt increase.
6) Due to Pistols being redefined as AHW, a small change to Inquisitor - no default Pistols, base cost reduced by 5, Brace of Pistols added as an option for 5pts.
7) Add Natural Armour to War Altar as it's currently reported to be a bit of a glass cannon, which it isn't intended to be.
8 ) clarify that Knight Commander loses barding (which he has inherently) if he takes a Young Griffon
9) clarify that Magic Mirror to be used against riders only
10) Reiters gain Repeater Pistol option for Captain to match Light Infantry design
11) Griffon mounts reduced by 20pts to be in line with other armies
12) Horse cost to be reduced from 15 to 10 has been voted for by the rest of the ABC
13) CLARIFICATION: We assume the change to Frost's Blessing is a copy paste error; could you please confirm?
REPROPOSALS
Week 1
MAJOR DESIGN
Support Units to gain the flat effect that if they charge into a combat where a Parent Unit is engaged, their ranks are also counted for CR on the turn they charge - as suggested by RT.
MINOR
1) Militia to gain Skirmisher by default if 15 models or less, to make up for the current points disparity. To reiterate, we don't want a 10 base unit size as 5 guys is a useful redirect footprint.
2) High Cleric to have Plate Armour as upgrade option at standard price.
Week 2
MAJOR DESIGN
Move Mortar and Rocket Battery to Special as discussed, as one entry, with Cannon and Hellblasters merging to become one entry - allowing Empire 6 WMs counting Stank. The Special entry would be as follows:
65 pts
Mortar: free (5" S2, Hole 6 d3, AP1)
Rocket Battery: +75pts
MINOR
1) Captain to go to Heavy Armour by default, Plate at +10pts.
2) Give Engineer the old Pigeon Bombs instead of the Order option.
3) Blessed Armour of Frederick the Great (former Sacred Armour, rerollable 1+) to be: Plate Armour (4+), immune to Killing Blow, 25pts.
Bardzo mocna zasada, właściwie no brain, zaszarżuje czy spalę, i tak mam +2S z lancy. Co nie zmienia faktu że chętnie bym taką zmianę zobaczył."Meet them at the gallop!
When a Cavalry unit the Captain has joined is charged, it may take a Leadership test. If it passes, it also counts as charging in this combat phase."
To jakieś 200pkt za 7 woundów bez warda. Równie dobrze można ustawić kreskę grejtów (jeśli nadal mają stubborn, nie orientuję się już) za połowę tej kwoty.imho dawanie korowym ryckom bodyguarda dla kapiatana to kiepski pomysł będą pomysły żeby wystawiać 5 takich rycków z tesco kapitanem.
Meet them at the gallop?
Przekombinowane. Mnożenie zasad specjalnych, tam gdzie ich wcale nie potrzeba. Jest tak OP, że na pewno w następnej wersji wypadnie z gry.
Bodyguard dla kapitana? Też OP. Stubborn miał być w tej edycji rzadkością. W tej sytuacji każdy wagon kawy z BSB będzie miał stubborna z re-rollem. Mogą się też pojawić 5tki z kapitanem itp. Głupie to.
Zabrano mu zasadę specjalną zdawania liderki na 3d6 po to aby... dać inne zasady specjalne? A niech zostanie ten rozkaz 3d6ld, który można dać kawalerii i już. A właściwie to czemu rozkazów nie można dawać knightly ordersom i reiksguardom?
Przekombinowane. Mnożenie zasad specjalnych, tam gdzie ich wcale nie potrzeba. Jest tak OP, że na pewno w następnej wersji wypadnie z gry.
Bodyguard dla kapitana? Też OP. Stubborn miał być w tej edycji rzadkością. W tej sytuacji każdy wagon kawy z BSB będzie miał stubborna z re-rollem. Mogą się też pojawić 5tki z kapitanem itp. Głupie to.
Zabrano mu zasadę specjalną zdawania liderki na 3d6 po to aby... dać inne zasady specjalne? A niech zostanie ten rozkaz 3d6ld, który można dać kawalerii i już. A właściwie to czemu rozkazów nie można dawać knightly ordersom i reiksguardom?
Byłoby afrontem nie napić się z Frontem!
Ostatnie zmiany przed świąteczną przerwą:
1) We are suggesting this (1 Prelate or Preacher allowed to join Flaggies and gain Unbreakable) replace the current, fiddly, ineffective, never picked Lay Preacher option. It also limits the total number of Bound Spell users possible in the army, which is a minor but useful nerf if Flaggies become popular.
2) These additional ideas are on top of the above suggestion that the banner be reduced to 35pts; ABC hasn't come to any set conclusion other than that the item needs change.
3) and 3a) - changes to Frederick the Great and IG are mentioned in my post above. MW immunity is a good alternative to KB for Blessed Armour of Frederick the Great. Another option for IG, given the Parry nerf, is base cost to 8ppm for Sword and Board, GW for +1. In fact, on reflection that seems better - rather than nerfing a reasonably powered anvil block, making its HW+S option slightly more attractive seems better.
4) This is a fluff call rather than a big gameplay one - the idea is the old Amber Wizard. No real competitive balance issues here.
Add the following:
5) Arcane Engine - no conclusion on exactly what needs to happen here, but it's not being picked and the most obvious reason for that is cost. A redesign has been suggested, as has a flat points slash - currently at 140, down to 120 or so.
and revise the Week 1 reproposal about Militia to: "if 15 models or less, MAY take Skirmisher for free"; further ideas have been floated, but what we've agreed on is the optionality of Skirmisher (in case people want a 15 model AHW flanker unit). We're also concerned about large units not being taken since we stopped them being Support Units, which we believe was the right call; one possibility would be a further points break after 15 models - the first 10-20 models come in for 4ppm, the final 30-40 for 3ppm (possibly revise the max unit size down if required to stop overcheap archer blocks, though I doubt that'll be a massive problem)
nawet nie kompleks...nie znajomość Imperium. Panzerka była dobra, tylko i wyłącznie przez 1+ ASv, ale żeby dupę urywało? niekoniecznie, mało ludków w rozpie, mało unitów i przeciwnik z rzeczami no save wystarczały...nie ma się co dziwić, że np. DE płakały, bo polegały na jednostkach, które kompletnie nie nadawały się do gry z takim przeciwnikiem.lohost pisze:jakos furionowe imperium lepsze mi sie nie wydawalo, takze mocno odstawalo od reszty ksiazek. jakis kompleks pancernego imperium gdzies w ludziach siedzi.
Dajcie spokoj to nie jest gotowy produkt wiec imho nalezy wstrzymac sie z ocenami jezeli nawet bedzie za slaby finalnie to go pewnie poprawia z gw bylo tak ze breta 11 lat czekala na ab i sie nie doczekala... Widac ze staraja sie ugrywalnic piechote i mi to osobicie nie przeszkadza.
Kapłani w flagellantach? W końcu! 
