Skaven 9 edycja - Koncert Życzeń

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MikiChol
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Re: Skaven 9 edycja - Koncert Życzeń

Post autor: MikiChol »

Co da swiftstrider abomce :shock: #-o
Błagam powiedzcie, że coś źle zrozumiałem [-o<

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Bombaj
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Post autor: Bombaj »

No dobra, trochę się zdenerwowałem. Siedzimy na tym forum non stop. Jest dyskusja, są propozycję, jest głos ludu, są odpowiedzi (przemyślane i niegłupie!) ABC teamu. Po czym nic z tych propozycji nie zostaje przedstawione wielkiej radzie Jedi! Smażą jakiś czołobitne farmazony o duperelach, toczą boje o jakieś nieistotne 5 pkt na elektryku, a nie ruszają w ogóle, ale to w ogóle kluczowych problemów, jak uzdatnienie combatowe jednostek, ataki i impakty abomy, itp. Tylko przy ratograch poszli po linii wspólnej dyskusji.

Nie twierdzę, że mają koniecznie słuchać się głosów z forum, ale na litość boską, jeśli w ogóle mają mieć to w nosie, to po co udają, że słuchają i prowadzą dyskusję.

Ech...


A swiftstride na abomce jest jakimś ewidentnym błędem albo +1d6 jeśli jej ruch może doprowadzić do szarży, czyli 4d6 w kierunku wroga. Brzmi absurdalnie. A nie dobiegnie? Odrzuci jedną kostkę? w ogóle się nie ruszy?

Nargh
Chuck Norris
Posty: 358

Post autor: Nargh »

Hmmm...:
1. Gigant Rodents: to, że obniżyli pkt to spoko, ale na litość Rogatego, przecież chodziło o to by mieć jakąś szybką odginaczkę, a nie kloc do trzymania bohatera którego nikt nigdy nie wystawi...
2. Vermin Ogres - dalej najsłabsze potwory na dzielni, smutne to, bo się nakręciłem na kloc ogrów z bohaterem na czele...
3. Vermin Horro Breed - fajny model na półce.
4. Regenka na Augment Ogre i ochrona mounta, spoko.
5. Giant Blight Rat - nie był moim faworytem do gry, choć stubborn zawsze fajnie brzmi.
6. Strain Master - logiczne z pozostałymi zmianami złożywszy.
a. spoko, piszmy na forum więcej, co się wydaje fajnym złożeniem, nie będzie już żadnych fajnych złożeń. Raz walniesz 2d6, może nawet wyjdą dwie pały a co se zapłacisz za imprezę to Twoje :mrgreen:
b. chyba są lepsze pomysły na forum, jak ulepszyć tą jednostkę

Czyli jak Bombaj napisał, pierdołami się zajmują a olewają społeczność, smutne lecz potwierdzone już drugi tydzień z rzędu.

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Bombaj
Chuck Norris
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Post autor: Bombaj »

Ponieważ są ważniejsze rzeczy niż granie w figurki w życiu, zająłem się zastanawianiem, jakie teraz figurki muszę kupić i jakie pomalować ;) ochłonąwszy przerzuciłem piłeczkę na stroną ABC teamu

http://www.the-ninth-age.com/index.php? ... #post81963

czekam na odpowiedź. Starałem się być rzeczowy i uprzejmy. Na razie cisza :D

ślivek
Kretozord
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Post autor: ślivek »

Vermin Swarm - Finished Proposals for the RT - Week 3

This topic is not for discussion.

To conform to the RULES

This topic will be used only for presenting the final version of a Proposal to the RT and for receiving their response.
@fjugin @lagge @arthain @el rey @Sir_Joker


WEEK 3 BALANCE CHANGES: (We have chosen not to include any big design change do to the large about or balance issues.) Most are done to decrease special rules and power level so it should not be to overwhelming despite the length.) We have also included our answers to last weeks response. So this includes all issues discussed up til now.
We know the Attribute has to change and we are trying to come up with a solution.

A) The new streamlining of Magic Banners in core: As it has been discussed before our army has a very limited amounts of banners. While the core magic banners is a great additions to some armies ours will suffer. We will be limited to our BSB and one 25 pts banner. Our Bsb is the weakest bsb in the game stat wise and equipment / mounts wise. He will be our only option for Stormbanner, but will get very fragile with a maximum of a 4+save.
We propose that one vermin guard unit will continue to have the option of a 50 pts magic banner. The Blight Monks and Clan Vermins will share the option for one 25 pts magic banner.

B) Warp Fire Thrower / Mortar: Changing away from the auto hits to reduce their power). In this way the average potential for the (Flame Thrower will drop by minimum 50% so we have given WFT back the Multiply Wounds (D3). We have added volley fire to the Mortar. (We need to keep their price high so we don't make them redirectors.)

Warp Fire As it is: This is a shooting weapon with the following profile:
Range 12”, Strength 5, Flaming Attacks, Magical Attacks, Warp Weapon Misfire, Slow To Fire. It automatically hits, and causes 2D6 hits in the target. If a double comes up when rolling for hits the weapon misfires.
Warp Fire as it should be:
[/b]This is a shooting weapon with the following profile:
Multiple Shot (2D6), Range 12”, Strength 5, Multiply Wound (D3) Flaming Attacks, Magical Attacks, Warp Weapon Misfire, Slow To Fire, Quick To Fire. This weapon never suffers To-Hit penalties from Multiple Shots. If a double comes up when rolling for hits the weapon misfires.
Mortar as it is:
This is a shooting weapon with the following profile:
Range 18”, Toxic, Magical Attacks, Warp Weapon Misfire, Slow To Fire. It automatically hits, and causes 2D6 hits in the target. If a double comes up when rolling for hits the weapon misfires.
Mortar as it should be:
This is a shooting weapon with the following profile:
Multiple Shot (2D6*2), Range 18”, Toxic, Volley Fire, Magical Attacks, Warp Weapon Misfire, Slow To Fire, Quick To Fire. This weapon never suffers To-Hit penalties from Multiple Shots. If a double comes up when rolling for hits the weapon misfires.
In order to limit spam add to the weapon teams that the same weapon can only be chosen twice.
Change 'This weapon never suffers To-Hit penalties from Multiple Shots' into 'This weapon never suffers To-Hit penalties from Multiple Shots or from Moving & Shooting' Then we can remove Quick to fire from all weapon teams.

C) Frontrunners: (Disclaimer: Their poison does not effect shooting, as per the RB)

Decrease from I5 to I4.(To avoid involuntary initiative creep.)
Remove their poison upgrade.
Decrease points from 70 to 65 and per model from 7 to 6.

D) Duskrunners:

Add posion to Slings (Making this the option for our Dusk Runners to get Poison shooting.)
Increase Slings price from 1 to 2 (For Duskrunners)
Decrease the Poison CC upgrade from 3 to 2.
Decrease additional models option from 7 to 5 (So we can't break the max 200 pts for a skirmish unit.)

E) Remove Core of the Clan from the Clan Lord and decrease his points from 90 to 80.Core of the Clan: If the Clan Lord is the general and as long as he is alive all friendly Clan Vermins and Verminguards can claim combat resolution from up to 4 ranks, and always gains minimum +3Ld from Vermin Swarm, even if it usually cannot claim ranks.

F) Reduce Stran Master from S5 to S4. Reduce him from 60 to 55 pts.

G) Deathrunner:

Add to the Deathrunner Multiply Wounds* Mundane Close Combat weapons only. (It seems that he otherwise gets a little too strong.)
Increase Multiply wounds from 20 to 25 pts.
Add Sling to his weaponry (So it's build in).

H) Warp Tech Machinist:

Increase Warp Generator from 30 to 35.
Increase Exoskeleton from 25 to 30.
Add to the Generator that he 'always only knows' so he can't get extra spells by taking tome of arcane lore.

I) Replace Clan Lord and Clan Chief heavy armour with a light armour and add the heavy armour as a 5 pts upgrade. (No point reduction on the characters needed)J) Musket Teams are costing too much because of non-useful defense bonuses (4+Save, 2 Attacks and Distracting.). They have very powerful shots but at 100 points they still only make 2,5 hits per turn (Before wound, save and regeneration.)

Change 'Musket' to 'Musket and Pavise' and add to the text that it grants 4+Save against shooting attacks. (This fits the models much better and it does not need an extra entry. Only the Musket teams are using the muskets so i doesn't mess up anything to add the Pavise to the weapon.)
Reduce the models by: -1W, -1A, - Shield, - Heavy armour.
Reduce cost to 80 for 5 and 16 pts per extra per model.

K) Warp Tokes:

Change the Warp Tokens damage from 'No save of any kind' to Armour Piercing (6) like the Goblin Mushrooms. The goblin version is both cheaper and less dangerous. We don't want our cheeper, just a little less dangerous.
Add 'on a Natural 1' to the warp tokens text so it's clear that there is not a 1/3 chance to get hit but a 1/6 chance.

Warp Token (10 pts): One use only. When casting a spell but before rolling power dice), the caster may decide to use a single Warp Tokenwhich adds a +D3 casting bonus to the spell. If a 1 is rolled on the dice, the caster suffers a hit with a Strength valueequal to the number of Power Dice used, with no saves of any kind allowed.Power Mushrooms (20 pts): Generate D3+1 Power Mushrooms at the end of deployment. A single Power Mushroom can be used once per spell andadds D3 to casting result. If this die rolls a natural 1, the wizard takes a Strength 3 hit with Armour Piercing (6).

L) Leadership suggestion. This is more like a suggestion to the RT to hear what your thoughts are. We know that clanrats point/stat wise is already a fair deal compared to other infantry (using EoS as requested by RT). We are suggesting this because we want to support getting bigger units to fit the feel of the army. This is not because we feel like we need to empower our unit. It is actually to see the army land in it's right place.

Decrease Clan Vermin Ld from 5 to 4. Decrease their pts per model from 5 to 4 after the first 20.
If Clan Vermins are decreased, decrease the Giant Rodents Ld from 5 to 4 (In order to stay in line with Clan Vermins

M) If not added to Main Rule Book war platform rules, it should be added to the Doom Bell and Blight Furnace that they can't move without a unit. Also that only up to one furnace can join a unit.

N) A little wish for the fluff players. Add additional +25 pts magic allowance to the greater clan special rule, so a Greater Clan general will be able to take 75 pts of magic items.

O) Can we get a mandate to change all weapons cost for characters in the Google DOC into the guidelines for weapons prices.

P) Globadiers: Instead of the point increase remove the Multiply Shots (2) and add Volley Fire instead to reduce their potential. (Getting an answer on the change is most important)



Response of two previous weeks clarification needed:



Q) Your answers can be a little hard to discipher so to be sure.

(No to alchemy) Yes to the Grey Apprentice getting shadows like the Prophet?
You want the Doom Bell and The Furnace to drop from T6 to T5 to steamline them with other similar choices? (Remember Doom Bell has a low WS which means we will be more fragile in combat than the DE alters.)






SOLITIONS TO PROPOSALS WEEK 2:



R) Vermin Ogres: (Motivation being: Making less options for units. No regeneration because it was never on the models, and does not fit them. Rather have them cheap because numbers is a vermin uniqueness. (Using trolls for comparison since they are the least powerfull for their price.)

Remove Regeneration (5+)
Decrease their points from 120 to 100 as a start and 40 to 35.
Remove all upgrades.

S) Warp Tech Vermin Ogres: (Motivation being: Making less special rules. Balancing out the units potential of damage. Streamline them with VO)

Remove Regeneration (5+) (Same as for the Vermin Ogres) and instead upgrade their 5+ to a 4+Armour Save
Remove Close Range assault weapons and give them back regular 3 attacks.
Add meat grinder to their weapons.
Make a small change to the Warp Tech Beast special rule to state that it is possible for only one model to use the meat grinder in CC.
State in the Meat Grinder that only weapon teams benefits from Innate Defence (5+)
Reduce their points cost from 55 to 50 per model.
Obrazek

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Janus
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Post autor: Janus »

Co za shit, bo akurat żeby likwidować in 5 szczurom i to w dodatku night runnerom???? a kawalerzyści imperium tez mogą mieć in 4, bo reszta ras taką ma?

mortar za mocny? te 2w t3 za 50pts?

assassinowi zabierają multiple w na magicznych broniach, ale dostaje za to darmowo procę? ŚMIESZNE

globadiersi- jedyny smaczek nowego booka i od razu muszą ich zlikwidować

"
R) Vermin Ogres: (Motivation being: Making less options for units. No regeneration because it was never on the models, and does not fit them. Rather have them cheap because numbers is a vermin uniqueness. (Using trolls for comparison since they are the least powerfull for their price.)

Remove Regeneration (5+)
Decrease their points from 120 to 100 as a start and 40 to 35.
Remove all upgrades."

LOL bo regenka na modelu 3w kosztuje 5pkt...
Obrazek
Wind Sower pisze:Nawet w średniowieczu papież nerfił strzelanie.
"Jak ja nie cierpię Vampirów"

Nargh
Chuck Norris
Posty: 358

Post autor: Nargh »

Nie no serio, staram się być optymistą, ale chyba łatwiej będzie oglądając obrady sejmu...
Nie wiem co ćpa nasza ekipa od book-a, ale ostro im to zamula banie.
Weapo teams - buahahahahaha!
Nerfienie assassina jest tak dobrym pomysłem jak wsadzanie palca do gniazdka stojąc wannie pełnej wody. Niby można, ale szału nie będzie.
Warp tech Mechanist jeszcze droższy, jeszcze bardziej się nie zmieści w rozpisce.
Clan Lord - kosmetyka
Musket Teams - na Rogatego, Gorka, albo Morka! WAT!?! Wystarczyło podbić BS o 1 i jednostka była by wystawialna. A tu co, obniżyć koszt, zrobić warzywo, a resztę ściąć do tego samego poziomu zapewne za tydzień...
Warp tokens - jedyna sensowna zmiana - może jak spojrzą co Ślivek i spółka robią w orkach to się nauczą jak pisać rozsądnego booka.
Clan vermins - niby obniżają liderka więc mogiła, ale z drugiej strony jak stracisz generała to i tak mogiła, więc ma to sens. Jeśli przejdzie banner dla Clan Vermins to da się baner liderki - wyjdzie zawsze trochę taniej.
Globadiers - tak, zróbmy warzywniak na miarę musket teams!
Doom Bell i Furmankę przeróbmy na wózki do warzywniaka!
Vermin Ogres - będą nawozić nas warzywniak! Serio, Unit za 420pkt (12 modeli), może jakiś heros w środku, bez ŻADNEJ opcji ochrony, by jakoś to wprowadzić do kombatu. A w kombacie nie ma żadnych bonusów w stylu hate, czy poison, więc może to mieć kłopot z ogarnięciem goblińskiego fasta.
WTVO - w połączeniu z nerfem weapon teamów, zabiorą im grinding attacki, dobrze, że nie kupiłem nigdy tych modeli.

Wniosek - czas powrócić do sucharów w stylu "Jaka jest niejadalna część warzywa?"

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Bombaj
Chuck Norris
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Post autor: Bombaj »

Znerfili jedyne, co było grywalne. Nightrunnerzy, którzy wreszcie dostali szansę wylatują, globki, które stały się na moment fajnym choicem też do wora. Ratogry, które też czekały lata na ugrywalnienie i szły powolutku w stronę "może da się wystawić" odpadły w barażach. Lipa.

Pseudoboosty dla nieistotnych unitów. Powiedzmy, że trzy siódemki jezzaili za ok 340 pkt brzmią jakoś tam sensownie, reszta sucks.

Cóż, trudno, skaveny idą na półkę łapać kurz. Szkoda.

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Pacek
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Post autor: Pacek »

Bombaj pisze:
Cóż, trudno, skaveny idą na półkę łapać kurz. Szkoda.
Szkoda, zwłaszcza, że raczej nie będę inwestował w cokolwiek innego, skoro tyle potu kasy i łez przeznaczyło się na morze szczurków... Pozostaję mieć jedynie nadzieję, że ktoś mądrzejszy od tego nieszczęsnego teamu na to kiedyś spojrzy...
The messanger bowed low. "Speak-speak" snarled the Grey Seer, to agitated to appreciate the fawning. "Unexpected complications, most powerful of the potentates" said the Scurrier. Before the creature finish,Grey Seer sent bolt of lightning to roast him alive."Bad news can always wait" thougt the mage..

Nargh
Chuck Norris
Posty: 358

Post autor: Nargh »

Cóż, jeszcze RT i BT mają to przetrawić - może stwierdzą, że szczury zostały zdradzone i nie przejdą te zmiany. W najgorzym przypadku, dokupię ze 20 czarnuchów ze sztachetami i wracam do orków, bo wreszcie są na fali :]
Choć jeśli popatrzeć na modyfikację parry save - może jeszcze abomka nie stracona :mrgreen:

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Janus
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Post autor: Janus »

Nargh pisze: Choć jeśli popatrzeć na modyfikację parry save - może jeszcze abomka nie stracona :mrgreen:
?
Obrazek
Wind Sower pisze:Nawet w średniowieczu papież nerfił strzelanie.
"Jak ja nie cierpię Vampirów"

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JaceK
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Post autor: JaceK »

Janus pisze:
Nargh pisze: Choć jeśli popatrzeć na modyfikację parry save - może jeszcze abomka nie stracona :mrgreen:
?
No poszła taka plota, że zamiast -1 to hit będzie hitowanie na minimum 4+. Czyli kary tylko dla tych co wcześniej hitowali na 3+.
OK. Bo przecież te tarcze były nagle przezajebiste (patrz Dwarfy).
Bearded Unclean 'Un pisze:Fuck, będe miał na pieńku z Drobnymi Wałeczkami :)
Obrazek

Nargh
Chuck Norris
Posty: 358

Post autor: Nargh »

To chyba zacznę cytatem:
c**j, d**a i kamieni kupa!
Znerfili co było do znerfienia zboostowali... no dobra, kija tam zboostowali!
Vermi Ogry jak mają być tanią kupą mięsa armatniego to powinny kosztować jeszcze mniej , 30 pkt jak szeregowy ogr z l. armour - chyba bo w sumie trudno to ocenić obecnie.
Assasin z kozaka na dzielni stał się zwyczajnie przyzwoitym wyborem, za około 120pkt można złożyć coś sensownego, ale bez multi wo nie ma czym się podniecać.
Strain Master zbiedniał straszliwie w zamian za 10pkt, chore.
Giant Rodents - zrobili najgłupszą z możliwych rzeczy.
Warp Tech Vermin Ogre w połączeniu z nerfem weapon teamów jakoś nędzie się prezentują.
Vermin Horror - jak pisałem wcześniej w połączeniu z nerfem parry safe może wracać na stoły, choć dalej nie urywa siedzenia. Może się okazać jedyną szczurzą odpowiedzią na monstery u przeciwników.
Clan Lord Core of The Clan removed - brawo, na kiego alternatywa dla vermin lorda.
Frontrunners i granaty - klasyczny [przykład jak zrobić coś fajnego i to zepsuć, ot dla zasady.
Musket Teams - niby tańsze, jednak wciąż wydają się słabe w porównaniu do ceny.

Na plus:
Vermin Daemon - reg. 4+ daje jakieś szanse na przetrwanie ostrzału, choć z drugiej strony wypiera Lightning Reflexes, więc mocno bijącego się daemona i tak nie zrobisz.
Grey Prophet bazowo 3lvl za 150pkt - przy obecnym systemie wspierania castingu i dispella zastanawiam się nad wystawieniem dwóch czy nawet trzech takich jegomościów!
Warp Tech Team nie są już uwiązane do oddziału matki - większa mobilność, choć ogólnie znerfione.
Vermin Clans - magiczna szmata do 25pkt, i robi się milej

Nie wiem czemu, ale ogólne wrażenia mam pozytywne...

ślivek
Kretozord
Posty: 1658

Post autor: ślivek »

Ostatnie zmiany przed świąteczną przerwą:
WEEK 3 Followup and Week 4 Design Changes:

Once again we are a heavy on the design changes and once again it's because it not about boosting, but about freeing our book from rules and complications. So a Sorry in advance but we hope that the end goal will justify it for us.


1) Decrease power of Stormbanner: (As requested by RT.)

Change: Warpstorm Banner 50 pts
One use only. Activate at the start of an opponents turn. During this player turn, all shooting attacks receive a -2 penaltyto hit. all friendly units gains the Blurry special rule. Shooting attacks that don’t roll to hit must roll a 4+ or the attack is lost. No Flying movement may take place.

The goal is to make it more in line with KoE Sky-horn of the Lost Pegasus Knights. Keep in mind that theirs is an Enchanted Item and so easier to acces and doesn't require as big an investment to bring. Also with the new changes to cannons they are not affected by the Only-Shot-On 4+ part.



2) Vermin Ogres: ( 1,5 RT member suggested we keep the swiftstrider upgrade and add the thunderous charge upgrade that we have proposed and earlier)

If the RT is ok with having upgrade options on our Vermin Ogres we still think it would be a nice to keep. 5 points for each upgrade means that they will not be an auto include but give VS a change to field more expensive hard hitters. At the same time making (slightly) up for our lack of cavalry.

So replace already removed Armour Piercing (1) upgrade with Thunderous Charge (5 pts)



3) Clan Vermin and Giant Rodent Ld and point decrease: (RT suggested us to give a second proposal, if we wanted the change to happen.)

We have decided not to change anything for now. And see if further testing proves it to be needed.



4) Doombell and Furnace streamline T: (As requested by RT to streamline the defensive profile of our Platforms.) Keep in mind that the Doom Bell will have a noticeable disadvantage next to Dread Elfs and Furnace since it will be only WS3. (Furnace WS5 and Dread Elf WS7)

We have chosen to take this opportunity to further update the two War Platforms for a more focused use.

Drop from T6 to T5 for Furnace and Doom Bell (As requested).
Either grant both Furnace and Bell 5+Save like the DE alter or remove it from the alters (To streamline the defense as you have requested).
Make State of Trance an army special rule: 'State of Trance (X). A model with this special rule can only join (X) units. The Model, and a unit joined by a model, with this special becomes Immune To Psychology.'
This is only to would make for a much prettier book. (Note:
Question: If it states that only Clanvermins/ vermingaurd or Blight Monks can join them does that mean no other characters can join the unit ? Since a character also count as a unit in it self?


Now only for the Furnace: Remove Terror and add Fear. (Only the Doom Bell should have the Terror since it's a more legend artifact.)
Remove the Magic Resistance (2). The Furnace should be the brute close combat machine. The Bell the magical one.
Now when additional hand weapon can be used on mounts give back the Monks on the furnace Additional. (To make it more CC oriented)
Raise it's grinding attacks from (D6) to (D6+2) (Also to underline it's combat oriented style.)

Now only the Doom Bell: (It should enhance the Prophets magical potential, and be boosting ruin casting only.)
Add Channel to the Doom Bell Special rules.
Remove the Bells ringing table and replace it with following special rule: (The Table is to hard to balance and it was never what made us take the bell anyways.)

1) As long as the Doom Bell is in the game all values in Path of Ruin is reduced by 1. Further more, the Grey Prophet adds +1 to his casting attempts when casting spells from the Path of Ruin.
Drop Furnace from 165 to 150 points (Lost MR2, Terror, 1T. Gained 4x S3 WS3 attacks and +2 Gridning hits.) Drop Doom Bell to 175 Points (Lost 1T, and Ringing Table, Gained new Special Rule and Channel.

The Dread Elves alters is still over preforming us by far, but we will make a comparison and suggest them to change.
The end result should be. You take Furnace for better CC and you take Doom Bell for stronger magic. Simple and plain.

5) The Greater Clan: With the decrease of Ld on the Prophet we would leave the Clan Lord as our only Ld7.

Remove the greater clan special rule. (A blight priest, and machinist should not be a better general than a Prophet.) (The Deathrunners is never gonna be a competitive general so no need for this rule, and the strain master has so much in common with a mounted Clan Lord so it's also not needed.)

Remove following from the Deathrunner: Sensei: The character’s Inspiring Presence range is increased to 18” if he is chosen as general. However, the character may only confer his Leadership to Deathrunners, Frontrunners and Duskrunners even if he is the general.
We still need the sensei special rule so he doesn't boost the unit he is within to Ld 7.

6a) Warp Tech Machinist: In order to distance him from our other choices but preserve him as a flavorful choice in the book we propose the following. (We have used the EoS Cleric as reference. But have aimed for less power since it seems his hatred boost to the unit is not paid for.)

Remove the 3 upgrades (Exo Skeleton, Generator an Projector) form the machinist.

Add following special rule: The model has the Channel special rule and Magical Attacks. Furthermore, the model can cast three bound spells at power level (x).

Black Lightning (3).

Static (3): The machinist and the unit he is within gains Armour Piercing (2).
Warp Flame Projector (4): Breath Weapon (Strenght 4, Magical, Flaming).


Increase his attacks from A1 to 2

Increase his points from 35 to 65 poin

Remove the Machinist Version of the Black Lightning from the [lexicon]Path of Ruin[/lexicon]

Remove [lexicon]Magical Attacks[/lexicon] from the [lexicon]Warp Pistol[/lexicon] (Since it is now one of his special rules)

6b) With the removal of the Machinist Version of the Black Lightning we propose instead adding following as our 10th magic item.

Eye of the Storm: Arcane item. When casting the spell Blight Lightning from path of Ruin add +2 to the amounts of hits caused.

7) Warp Forge Armour: Remove the extra cost for mounted models (35 pts) making it 25 pts for everyone. (Having the extra cost for mounted models would require BH great horn helm same increase.)6 ) In the translation to the new mounts protection War Throne went from +5 to +6. We hope to either give it back +5 or reduce it in points.9) Dwarf Issue: If the Dwarfs have a free hatred against one of our units it would only seem fair that we would have a free bonus against them as well. Is this something we should work on? If no we suggest that the free bonus against Vermins Swarm and Orc & Goblins are removed from the dwarfs Ancient Grudge special rules (The removal option would be our preference.).10) Murderblade: With the change to the Grey Prophet Ld it is hard to field a Murderblade Clan Lord because he will have to be the General. Solve this by adding to Murder Blade that the character also gains the Not A Leader Special rule. It makes sense in the way that even the rats expect him to die from the blade.

11) Attributes: We are not at all sure we have found a good solution yet. But this is where we are at and maybe RT has suggestions or wishes for the direction we should take. Replace Endless masses: Range 24" Augment, Last One Turn, Target unit can claim combat resolution from up to 4ranks, and always gains minimum +3 Leadership fromVermin Swarm, even if it usually cannot claim ranks.

With: Target unit can claim combat resolution from up to 4ranks, and gains the Fight In Extra Rank special rule.
Or: The target unit can add d3+1" to it's movement in their following movement phase. (Maybe too much like wilderness)
Or: +1 Movement (Lasts one turn.)
Or: For every succesful spell cast in the Path of Ruin the value of all spells decrease by 1 for the remains of the phase
Or: Everytime a Spell is succesfully dispelled the dispelling wizard takes a S1 hit, Armour Piercing (6).
Or: Focused S3 hit to a model with the Channel Special rule within 24.

12) Path of Ruin:

With the change of the Machinist swarp Defile The Ground with Black Lightning to make it our 0 Spell again. Defile The Ground has as well been reported to strong because if the possibility to spam it.



13) Hi Diego you asked for comparisons on Strain Master 55 pts price:
Orc Boss (55): -2M, (+1S) +1T, -3I +2Ld (Waargh, Born To Fight, (HA option), vs Swift Strider, Honerless, Vermin Swarm.)
Paladin (60): -2M, -1I +2Ld (Heavy Armour, Shield, Inspiring, Blessed, Lance vs Swift Strider, Honerless, Vermin Swarm.)
Captain (60): -2M, -1I +2Ld (HA an PA options, Orders vs Swift Strider, Honerless, Vermin Swarm.)
Week 4 'counter' suggestions.


A) Warp Tech Machinist

Keep suggestion as given, but change the bound spells to these (As requested.)

Black lightning (Ruin) (4)
Enchanted Blades* (Alchemy) (4)
*Can only target the caster's unit
Pink fire (Change) (4)

We have put power lvl for all three bound spells at 4, but when we compare to EoS, their spells is equal at power level (3). We feel that 4 is actually where they should be, but if RT think 3 is better we will change it ofc.

B) Weapon Teams as Volley Guns: Requested by 1 RT member.
Volley guns in general has a very low misfire rate which is why we don't like it for our Weapon Teams. (Why does the Volley Gun has such a low Misfire rate. All other Artillery weapons has a 1/6 misfire rate. Maybe change the Volley Cannon into misfires on a roll of doubles? Just a thought. At least that would ofc make us want to change )

The volley gun will also force us to change the Gatling since it will become to powerful.

Furthermore it seems that it will not decrease the amounts of rules that much. So for now we advise that the teams stay as they are. If more RT members believe they need the change we will ofc be willing to comply and work out the new solution.


C) Doom Bell: RT seemed somewhat ok with the changes. In the meantime we have gotten a lot of feedback that skaven still needs the random elements. And we are a little scared that the 'No-Dice-Rolling-Needed' for the Bell will be too big a change.

Options:

Version 1 (As discussed in Week 4 + Fjugins suggestions.): As long as the Doom Bell is in the game all caster within 12" of the model reduces casting values in Path of Ruin is by 1. Further more, the Grey Prophet adds +1 to his casting attempts when casting spells from the Path of Ruin.

Version 2 (More in character with the Skaven tradition and the current table.): It still offers an option to make it a magic boost every turn.
The double roll which inflicts a hit to the bell is a kind of agressive now that the Prophet dies along with the bell. It needs to be better reflected in the points.

Reduce the S of the 'If a double comes up' from 6 to 5 now when the bell is reduced from 6 to 5.
Change the Table to following:

3-5 Pick one model with the type War Machine or Chariot, or with the Special Rule War Platform or Undead Construct on the battlefield that possesses Toughness 7 or greater; the model suffers D3 wounds with Armour Piercing (6). (Moved from 9-11) - or - The Prophet gains a Warp Token (See under 'Other Equipment')
6-8 One friendly unit within 12" of the Doom Bell causes Fear until the start of your next magic phase. - or - The Grey Prophet riding the Doom Bell gets+1 casting modifier for the phase.
9-11 One friendly unit within 12" of the Doom Bell gains Lightning Reflexes until the start of your next magic phase. - or - All caster within 12" of the model reduces casting values in Path of Ruin by 1.


To keep the character of the army we would advise version 2. But we would like to give RT an option to chose what fits best into the general vision for 9th.
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Janus
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Post autor: Janus »

relacja gracza VS na forum 9
I just came from a local tournament today in Spain, and i get 1º position from 30 Players. This is the list that i used:

1 Vermin Daemon: Exalted, Lightning Reflexes, LVL 3 Disease: 495 Pts ( 5+special ).

1 Chief: BSB, Monstrous Rat, heavy armour, shield, Sword of Strenght, DragonScale Helm : 242 Pts ( 3+ arm // 4+ Reg ).

1 Aprentice Magister: LVL 1 Ruin, dispel scroll: 100 Pts.

20 Vermin Guard: Musician, standar bearer, Lightning Rod, Globe Launcher: 260 Pts.

20 Rats at arms: spears, standar bearer, Rotary gun: 160 Pts.

20 Rats at arms: spears, standar bearer, Rotary Gun: 160 Pts.

25 Slaves: 60 Pts.

25 Slaves: 60 Pts.

6 Jezails: 122 Pts.

5 Gutter Blades: Poison Attacks, Scout and Ambush, Slings, Champion: 95 Pts.

3 Thunder Hulks: 200 Pts.

1 Abomination: toxic retaliation: 230 Pts.

1 Abomination: toxic retaliation: 230 Pts.

In the tournament was 30 Players, a few of them, maybe 4 or 5 players with me included had some ETC experience, most of them just played local tournaments before, others are new and dont have any experience.

We played at 2400 Pts, 3 games of 2,30 Hours every one.

1º Game was HOLD THE GROUND with classical DEPLOYMENT, we played 4 turns:

I played VS KINGDOM OF EQUITANIE, i won the game 18-2. I did 1799 Pts and he did 545 Pts. In this game i lost 1 Abomination, 1 unit of Slaves, 1 Weapon Team and half of Vermin Guard unit and maybe something more i dont remember exactly. I killed all his army except his best unit 11 KNIGHTS OF THE GRAIL with BSB ( was too hard for me, i only killed 3 Knights ) and half of 11 KNIGHTS OF THE REALM with 1 mage lvl 1 PATH OF WHITE MAGIC.

In this game i had nice shots with my Weapon Teams, Thunder Hulks and Jezails. And i was lucky because my Gutter Blades killed 1 Siege War Machine ( catapult ) in the first turn with Slings, and other Catapult had problems and was destroyed itself in 2º turn.

His list if i remember well was: 1 general in Hippogriff, 1 BSB, 1 mage lvl 2 White Magic, 1 mage lvl 1 White Magic, 2 Catapults, 11 Knights of Grail, 11 Knights of Realm, 3 Pegasus Knights, 10 Bownmen Peasant, 10 Knights Aspirant, 5 Yeoman Outriders.


2º Game was SECURE THE TARGET with a DIAGONAL DEPLOYMENT, we played 4 turns:

I played vs UNDYING DINASTIES, i won the game 20-0. I did 3130 Pts and he only did 60 Pts ( 1 unit of Slaves ). No story in this game because he didnt know how to deploy his units in this map and how to stop my Abominations and Vermin Daemon, so easy win.

In this game my unit of 3 Vermin Hulks was charged by a Colossus, and i dont know how, i killed him in 1 turn xd

His list if i remember well was: 1 Pharaoh, 1 Tomb Architect, 18 Skeletons, 2 units of 5 Skeleton Cavarly, 1 unit of 8 Skeleton Chariots, 30 Necrópolis Guard, 2 units of 2 Great Vultures, 2 Colossus, 1 Casket of Phatep.

3º Game was normal game without objectives and with classical DEPLOYMENT, we played 5 turns:

I played vs ORCS AND GOBLINS, i won the game 12-8. I did 1224 Pts and he did 782 Pts. It was a hard game with a lot of problems in my Weapon Teams and Vermin Hulks ( i counted more tan 6 problems while shooting ). I won because my Vermin Daemon have a very nice Magic Phases, so my Abos and my BSB was always buffed with Path Disease. In this game i lost 1 Abo, the BSB, 1 unit of Slaves, 1 Weapon Team, in the unit of 3 Vermin Hulks only 1 survived with 1 Wound, and maybe something more... I killed all the army except the 2 biggest units of Orcs, too hard to get them downed, in unit of Eadbashers i killed 29 Orcs except 1 and Pjs

His list i think was: 1 Orc Warlord, 1 Orc Big Shaman lvl 4 Path Of Wilderness, 1 Orc Chief, 1 unit of 15 Orc Boar Riders, 1 Troll, 4 units of 5 Goblin Raiders in Wolfs, 1 unit of 30 Orc Eadbashers, 1 unit of 30 Iron Orcs, 1 Gargantula.

I think in general a had a lot of luck with my Shooting Phase, except 3ºth game. My Vermin Daemon and my Abos did it very well in all games, and i was very surprised with the unit of 3 Vermin Hulks in all games. And i liked a lot Path of Disease, combined with Abos and BSB make them hard to kill.

Also i think that i cant get more clear conclusions about my list or our army because of level of my oponents, only 3ºth game was hard. But in general im happy with my list and how she worked in all games.

Im sorry about my english or how i explained myself But i hope that it will be useful for you.

Post was edited 1 time, last by Iam Hades (34 minutes ago).
gracz w Australii na turnieju zdobył 2 miejsce. Raczej nie ma co liczyć na boosty naszej armii.
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Wind Sower pisze:Nawet w średniowieczu papież nerfił strzelanie.
"Jak ja nie cierpię Vampirów"

Nargh
Chuck Norris
Posty: 358

Post autor: Nargh »

Taaa, 5 graczy miało doświadczenie na ETC, to daje do myślenia...
Jakiś czas temu dali rozpiska zwycięzcy z niemieckiego turnieju:
2x verminlord
Bsb
Mag 2lvl
2x inżynier
20x Clanraty
3x po 10 vermin Guardian
4x weapon team
3x po 8 Jezzaile
Doomwheal

Takie czasy, skaven udają Wood elfy....
A na boosta nie ma co liczyć od dawna bo nasz ról team jest przekonany o swej zacności i uważa, źe rat góry z T4 bez żadnej ochrony to rozwiązanie problemów z fazą CC. Pozostaje mieć nadzieję, że dostatecznie pitną inne armie.

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Qsownik
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Post autor: Qsownik »

O ile dobrze wiem to conajmniej trzy jednostki czekają zmiany (po rozmowie z ABC): dzwonek, rat ogry (buff - jak mi tłumaczył usunięcie regenki było pomyłką, na dodatek nie było polecenia od RT by nerfić) i działo.

Nargh
Chuck Norris
Posty: 358

Post autor: Nargh »

Naprawienie Ogrów może mieć zbawienny wpływ. Byle byt nie zrobiły się dużo droższe, bo póki co to mamy poważny problem z utrzymaniem przewagi liczebnej nad przeciwnikami :] Chociaż ja nie wiem, czy to była pomyłka, czy też ktoś miał debilny pomysł i dopiero po fakcie się zorientował, ż trafił do top 5 najdebilniejszych pomysłów. Z wypowiedzi na forum po nerfie rat ogrów wynikało, że to celowe działanie, że wszystkie potworne piechoty dostaną silne nerfy. A taki detal, że stają się kompletnie nie grywalne względem innych typów jednostek został pominięty.
Na dzwonek nie mieli pomysłu od samego początku, może wreszcie na coś wpadli. Dostali nerfa na jego wytrzymałość, zabrali unbreakable i rzucanie czarów w 360*, a tabelki może i fajne nie równoważą kosztów. Jednak obserwując dyskusję na forum obawiam się, że pójdą w kierunku zmniejszenia kosztu do 150pkt wywalenia tabelki i dania bonusów pokroju „Pathmaster”, 360* i jakiś bonus do casta.
Ale ogólnie obawiam się, że znowu zmiany będą na tyle słabe, że pozostanie tylko liczyć na solidne nerfy konkurencji w przyszłości.

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Janus
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Post autor: Janus »

Dobra, dziś złapałem herminarda[główny ar team] na ub i popytałem się trochę o skv, czemu takie czy zamierzają coś zmienić itd. Ogólnie jemu też nie podoba się praca naszego arteamu do skv, uważa że zbyt dużo rzeczy jest losowych, a sam arteam leci w kulki z niektórymi propozycjami. Pewnie po części to jego autopromocja itp, ale powiedział, że skv będą się zajmować jakoś w przyszłym tyg dopiero i zwróci uwagę na jednostki, głównie: cannon, grey seer, ale też katapa
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Wind Sower pisze:Nawet w średniowieczu papież nerfił strzelanie.
"Jak ja nie cierpię Vampirów"

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Abrasus
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Post autor: Abrasus »

Jeśli Hermi tak powiedział to tak zrobi. On jak sprawdza każdy book to sam składa rozpiski, gra przynajmniej kilkanaście bitew danym bookiem zanim zaczyna się wypowiadać. Myślę, że on akurat podchodzi do tego najbardziej rzeczowo. Niestety przez to jest ostatnio bardzo zajęty :wink:

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