RUM-ors 8 ed Brodacze.

[Filup]

Jezeli to jest prawda:

Lord: 145

Runelord: 120

Daemon Slayer: 140

Thane: 65

Runesmith: 60

Master Engineer: 70

Dragon Slayer: 70

TO smutek ze DS podrozal... 50pkt to bylo takie fajne!

O, to ciekawe:

Longbeards have:

Ancestral Grudge

Immunce to Psychology

Old Grumblers (if the Longbeards aren't fleeing, units with 6" may re-roll failed Panic tests)

Relentless

Resolute
Shieldwall

12 points apiece. Can take shields for 1 point. Greatweapons for 2 points. Unit size 10+. Come with hand weapon and heavy armor.

Czyli za 14 z GW kosztuja tyle co hamki... jezeli hamki nadal maja stubborn, to nie widze sensu longow... Wynika z tego ze sa o 4 pkt drozej niz warriorsi, dla +1 WS i Sily... bo te zasady to malo daja przy ld 9. Jako mowie, nie widze sensu... szkoda.

Aha, i gdzies czytalem, ze ma nie byc rune of challenge. Czyli likwidujac popychaczke i rune of challenge, pozbawili nas wszytkich mozliwosci taktyki innej niz stoj i strzelaj i przyjmuj szarze... mam nadzieje, ze te wszystkie plotki sie nie sprawdza.

[hypnotic]

Baner za 75pkt dający stubborna w 12", to daje ciekawe opcje.

[Rakso_The_Slayer]

Dla tych co nie wierzyli

[Bocian]

Wg. mnie te plotki się raczej potwierdzą, koleś szybko i precyzyjnie odpowiadał na pytania innych forumowiczów. Najbardziej irytujące jest to, że wbrew oczekiwaniom, zamiast obniżyć koszt punktowy jednostek, wszystkie koszty albo zostawili na starym poziomie, albo podnieśli...

Podoba mi się gromril shield wall na IB, jak łatwo policzyć, już przeciwko atakom z -2 do save'a, jest to lepsza opcja niż goły save 2+. Skoro mogą też brać drogi sztandar (np. stubborn w promieniu 12 cali), a oathstone nie blokuje ruchu - jest to ciekawa opcja.

Dziwi mnie trochę, że podnieśli koszt trollslayerów, fajnie, że mogą zaatakować po śmierci, ale dotychczas byli ciut za drodzy.

Hammersi - chyba raczej must have.

Fajny lord na tarczy, bonus do as i woundów jest cool.

Organki paradoksalnie będą chyba silniejsze niż były, tylko nieco zmienią przeznaczenie, kasowanie skirmisherów będzie trudniejsze, ale wszystkie regularne jednostki będą ostro obrywały, zwłaszcza jeśli się doda +1 do trafienia runami, ew. Master Inżyniera.

No i dobrze, że kowale dadzą chociaż armour piercing na oddziale.

[hypnotic]

Hamerersi 2A , S7 w szarży i hate, najs. I do tego heirloom dający davastating charge w 6".

Organki S6 , +1 do hita i jeszcze BS inżyniera, albo runa przerzutu misfire wielokrotnego użytku.

[White Lion]

Niby fajnie to brzmi ale jednak zwiększony koszt prawie wszystkiego i konieczność wrzucania inżynierów oznacza że w praktyce wystawimy sporo mniej niż do tej pory.
No i spory spadek ilości kostek do dispelowania też będzie bolał.

dodatkowo szkoda że bolce nie mają już małych inżynierów. Z kosztem na poziomie 55pkt będą strzelały tak jak orkowe

[Marks]

"Seeking: +1 to hit against targets with Flying"

Czyżby zalążek 9 edycji, na wzór czegoś z 40k? To jest runa do maszyn, gdyby jednostki z lotem nie miałby obrywać inaczej, raczej by ich nie wyszczególniono.

[wrogu]

A champion ironów ma opcję wzięcia małej bombki - fajne. Czy ironi nie mają mieć stubborna z automatu? Runesmith daje AP dla całego oddziału - longi z tarczami ap i s5 w szarzy, to samo ironi, a jak nie to 5++ parry. Można dać AP hamkom, ale to bedzie overkill ciekawe czy przechodzi na kusze. Strasznie dopakowane zasadami będą te oddziały, tyle, że koszmarnie drogie. Organki powrócą z runa do BS - będą okrutne - bo missfire tylko na 2x missfire przy rzucie na ilosc hitow, 30" zasiegu. Jeśli chodzi o walkę z klockami to raczej problemow nie będzie, kwestia łapania punktów pozostaje, same helikopterki mogą mieć z tym problem na plus runy z vanguardem - darmwe 12 cali ..... tylko czy 12+max 36+to co się pogoni,overrunuje( ) wystarczy.

"Seeking: +1 to hit against targets with Flying"

Czyżby zalążek 9 edycji, na wzór czegoś z 40k? To jest runa do maszyn, gdyby jednostki z lotem nie miałby obrywać inaczej, raczej by ich nie wyszczególniono.

Runa seeking przeciez juz chyba w 6 ed byla? Jak tania to spoko .... a co tam, na organki

[Filup]

Przeciez to jest stara runa obecna od zawsze.. i nie brana tak dlugo, jak wszyscy przestali brac balisty...

Edit... narozny mnie ubiegl

[Afro]

nie chce mi się za bardzo przekopywać, dlatego może już było:

Cannons have been mentioned to be d3 wounds and 120 points. Apparently the Empire can make better armour and war machines than the masters...

1. Hammer that grants +3 initiative, and if you wound an opponent, they have I1 until the end of the combat phase.
2. Axe that grants re-rolls to hit and to wound against Orcs & Goblins and Skaven. Cause Terror against those opponents.
3. Armor of 2+ save and 3++ vs attacks of S6 or higher.
4. A horn that is one use only and grants all units with 6" the Devastating Charge rule til the end of turn. After using, that character causes Fear to High Elves, Dark Evles, and Wood Elves for the rest of the game.
5. Ring that grants a S4 breath weapon with Flaming Attacks.
6. Models in unit can re-roll failed to-wound rolls. (I like this one, but it's priced to be BSB only.)

[Barbarossa]

No to wychodzi, że zamiast dział trzeba brać irondrake'ów

W którymś momencie okaże się zapewnie, że "standardowa" PG rozpa dwarfów zawiera 2 kloce irondrake'ów, 6 bomberów, 2 małe żyro, organki, inżyniera, zapchajcore'y ze stubbornem i bohaterów.

[Filup]

No to wychodzi, że zamiast dział trzeba brać irondrake'ów

W którymś momencie okaże się zapewnie, że "standardowa" PG rozpa dwarfów zawiera 2 kloce irondrake'ów, 6 bomberów, 2 małe żyro, organki, inżyniera, zapchajcore'y ze stubbornem i bohaterów.

Bajka nie nowy podrecznik... nie ma co. Bede tesknil za runa cho-no-tu... <placze>

Ciekawe czy przy nowych zasadach ktos wezmie minersow

[panterq]

Wygląda na to że mamy dwa potencjalne buildy - gunline i napór. Punktem stycznym będą pewnie żyrki. Dużo zależy od zasad cannonów.

[Grichalk]

A może ktoś całość przekleić, bo w pracy mam zablokowaną stronę

[Barbarossa]

W napór na piechocie nie do końca wierzę. Wszystko wygląda super na papierze, jak kloce egzeków DE, ale w praktyce klocki piechoty są strasznie drogie, wolne i niezgrabne - łatwo je wymanewrować, zredukować o połowę wzornikami a potem zjeść komboszarżą w stylu monster, bohater i rydwan.

Wzorniki zdecydowanie za bardzo karcą duże klocki piechoty.

Popatrz choćby co się stanie, kiedy ów straszliwy pieszy napór (3 klocki piechoty?) spotka 6 gyrobomberów, 2xcoptery i 2x organki i drake'ów.

[wrogu]

A krasnale wzorników mają .... aż nadto. Takie szczurki się zbyt łatwo nie pochowają, ale gonienie DE, HE, WE i inne takie wynalazki walące słonkiem zza winkla .... wydaje mi się, ze tu cały szkopuł tkwi.... ale to okiem kogoś dosłownie i w przenośnie zardzewiałego w wfb

[Azgaroth]

A może ktoś całość przekleić, bo w pracy mam zablokowaną stronę

Trochę tego jest ale proszę bardzo

Not a big fan of the Anvil. 5++ save. Gives 2 extra wounds to the Runesmith. One extra casting and dispel dice each respective turn. One bound spell grants Immune to Psych for all friendlies within 24", the second gives one target unit +1 AS, and the last is 2d6 S4 magic missile.

he Runesmith with the Anvil can use each one of them once per turn as a bound spell. The casting values are 3+, 4+ and 5+ respectively. Don't recall any other methods of improving movement in general, but it is possible to take a total of 8 'Copters, so there's a little bit of more movement capacity there, if you go that route.

Master Engineers: Allow re-roll of artillery dice, but cannot be used for the Bounce of a cannonball or the burst for the Flame Cannon. Also can grant BS to a nearby machine. He can "entrench" a single warmachine at the beginning of the battle, making it count as being in hard cover. Gets a LoS roll if within 3" of a friendly warmachine.

Strollaz Rune gives Vanguard to the unit carrying said banner.

Warriors are Ld 9.

Runesmiths DO NOT provide any dispel dice merely by their presence. They do allow a channel attempt as if they were a wizard. The only guaranteed extra dispel dice that I found was a single extra casting and dispel dice from the Anvil each turn.

There is no Brotherhood of Grimnir.

Not sure where to look to determine who the official author is

Cannon is 120

Don't really like the Ancestral Heirlooms. One is a banner that gives the unit re-rolls of failed to-wound rolls, though. That seems pretty good, but it's 100 points.

ords can have 125 points. Heroes can have 75 (runesmith, thane, dragon slayer) or 50 (engineer). Runesmith/Lord special rules are Ancestral Grudge, Armor Piercing, Forgefire (grants armor piercing to the unit he joins), MR (2 or 1 depending on level of rune-guy), Relentless, Resolute, Rune Lore (that's the channel), and Shieldwall.

Hammerers have heavy armor. You can buy them a shield. They come with both a hand weapon and a great weapon; I guess that means you could switch to the HW&S for the parry if you really wanted to? They're stubborn, and if the general is in the unit, then any member of the Hammerer unit can accept challenges.

Ironbreakers are definitely 3+, unless I'm stupid or something. They have Gromril Armor and Shields.

No "gromril shield," but there is a special rule "Shieldwall of Gromril," the Ironbreakers have that. This gives them +1 to the parry attempt at all times, not just on the turn they're charged.

Regular Master Engineers can only buff the WS of a warmachine. The special character engineer can also buff Thunderers and Quarrellers.

Yes, the Slayers can take a Runic Standard of up to 50 points; unfortunately, that's not enough for the ward save vs missile weapons banner.

The Strollaz Rune is relatively cheap; only two others are cheaper. It's 35 points. Because of the mix of standard runes costs, it really only looks like you can have Strollaz on two units at once; one from either Irondrakes, Longbeards, Hammerers, or Slayers (all allowed 50 points of banner) and one Ironbreakers (allowed 75 points of banner).

I'm really liking the idea of taking at least 3 'Copters and giving two of them Vanguard, just so I can get a couple of S3 Flame Templates running down the length of scary units like Witch Elves and/or Executioners. Should do a good job of thinning them out, and the Vanguard + 10" fly move should let you get out of charge arcs.

Base costs for characters:

Lord: 145
Runelord: 120
Daemon Slayer: 140
Thane: 65
Runesmith: 60
Master Engineer: 70
Dragon Slayer: 70

Longbeards have:

Ancestral Grudge
Immunce to Psychology
Old Grumblers (if the Longbeards aren't fleeing, units with 6" may re-roll failed Panic tests)
Relentless
Resolute
Shieldwall

12 points apiece. Can take shields for 1 point. Greatweapons for 2 points. Unit size 10+. Come with hand weapon and heavy armor.

The big, ridiculous 650 point Dwarf king has a buffed Shieldbearer thing that gives him +4 wounds. Seriously, he has 7 wounds, a 2+/4++, and also has a 2++ against wounds caused by Killing Blow, Heroic Killing Blow, or anything with the Multiple Wounds special rule. His axe has ASF, and wounds on a 2+ regardless of toughness unless the target has Magic Armor, in which case it wounds on a 3+ regardless of toughness.

the T10 rune is the Master Rune of Adamant. It's a 100 point armor rune

The Flame Cannon can have Runes, too. An extra 25 points to re-roll a misfire result, especially when firing overcharged to hit enemy units on turn 1? Yeah, I'll take that.

Special has: Hammerers, Ironbreakers, Slayers, Cannons, Miners, Gyrocopters, Bolt Throwers, and Grudge Throwers.

Rare has: Organ guns, Flame Cannons, Rangers, Gyrobombers, and Irondrakes.

Warrior 8 points with hand weapon and heavy armor.
shields are 1 point
great weapons are 2 points

Miners and Rangers are largely unchanged. Miners use regular Ambush rules now, and the 'Drill grants +1 to the roll to see if they show up. Rangers come standard with handweapon, great weapon, throwing axe, crossbow and heavy armor. You can purchase shields at 1 point each. Base cost is 14. Miners' base cost is only 10. Rangers are 5+ in size; miners are 10+ in size.

Though, if you feel like dropping 165 points on Bugman, you then have the option to spend an extra 3 points per ranger. This grants the rangers +1 WS/BS/S. Makes them kind of pricey, but I guess that's pretty equivalent to the Longbeard Rangers we're used to seeing.

All lords (including special characters) are Ld 10 except for the Runelord, which is Ld 9. Most of the Heroes are Ld 10, too, except for the Master Engineer (including the special character engineer) and the Runesmith, which are Ld 9.

Runy inżynierskie

Immolation: Detonate your warmachine to hurt enemies; automatically blows up if killed in close combat
Disguise: machine is in hard cover
Penetrating: Increases strength, can be taken twice. If on grudge thrower, affects both S values, as in x(y).
Stalwart: grants bonus to machines combat resolution score
Accuracy: +1 to hit with BS shooting or re-roll scatter die
Forging: reroll misfire on artillery die (this is NOT one use only. The wording is you can reroll "whenever a misfire result is rolled.)
Seeking: +1 to hit against targets with Flying
Burning: Flaming Attacks

The Daemon Slayer has a built in Other Trickster's Shard (enemy re-rolls successful ward saves), and the Dragon Slayer has Multiple Wounds (d3) vs Monsters.

Lista jednostek zadajacych d3 woundów :
Gyrobomber bombs.
Flame Cannon
Cinderblast bomb (upgrade for Ironbreakers)
Trollhammer Torpedo (upgrade for Irondrakes)
Dragon Slayers (vs Monsters)
Cannon
Grudge Thrower (center hole)
Bolt Thrower
Multiple Runes of Fire
Multiple Runes of Might
Rune of Daemon Slaying (vs Daemons)
Rune of Dragon Slaying (vs Dragons, Multiple Wounds (2))

The Cinderblast Bombs are OK. It's the Blasting Charges on Miners I think are too expensive. The Blasting Charges are one Slave per model, and they're one use only items.
The Cinderblast Bombs are not one use only; you are "assumed to have enough to last the whole" game. They're between 7 and 8 Slaves in cost. They work like a Stone Thrower with a range of 2"-8". They use the small blast marker. It's S3(6) with Multiple Wounds (d3). On a misfire, roll a die. On a 1, center the marker over the dude with the bombs. On a 2+, the bomb was a dud, and nothing happens.

Bolt Throwers are base 27.5 slaves. Pretty much every infantry type has a base Attack characteristic of 1, except for Hammerers. Slayers have the extra hand weapon.

Shieldwall gives +1 to Parry on the turn you're charged. Shieldwall of Gromril gives +1 to Parry all the time. The unit that has Shieldwall of Gromril does not also have Shieldwall, so doesn't get the benefit of both.

Cannons d3 wounds

[Galharen]

flamecannon wraca do łask. Szybka relacja gościa z ulthuan.net ktory zagrał juz z nowymi krasiami:

Generally:

-Book is a side-grade to a very slight buff. They got some cool new toys which will help them in certain match ups and, while what was before the really strong elements have been tweaked/nerfed.
-Characters are less important in this version than previous. All the new toys means you don't have to tool characters to deal with various situations (and in truth, tooling such characters is often more costly than they're worth). Also Heroes > Lords for the points, and there's no reason to really take a Runelord any more. BSB + Runesmith seems a lot stronger combination.
-Gyrocopters are 80point armored eagles with Flame Templates and Drop Rocks. Really add a lot of versatility to the army by adding an offensive element that can slow / redirect / attack (if you're feeling brave!) everything from flankers, to monsters, to infantry. 2+ is mandatory for most lists I feel and taking up to 6 (although I'm sure that will be comped in most environments) allows for some shenanigans.

Specifically:
-The Heirlooms are mostly rubbish with two notable exceptions. The Horn makes Dwarf counter attacks very hard-hitting and helps make MSU / misdirecting style (i.e. Gyros, congo-slayers/rangers) lists even better. The Ring gives a Breath Weapon which will obviously be good in certain match ups. I think one or both are likely to be in most, if not all, lists.
-Runes. Take 'em or leave 'em. Tons of combinations, which I haven't spent the time to totally figure out but in general: (A) characters are harder to kill but hit less hard (B) there are more good magic banners than their are 75+ banner carrying units. Potentially means multiple units of Hammers will make an appearance (MSU for sure) although I doubt this style of play is as good as Longbeards+Hammers+toys. (C) Stonethrowers and Organ guns are worse, Cannons (although more expensive) and Flame Cannons are better.
-Warmachines. 2-3 Gyros, 1-2 Cannons, 0-1 Grudge Thrower, and either 2 Flame Cannons, one with S6, or two units of ten Firedrakes gives Dwarves a much, much more powerful shooting phase than they had previously. Flame Cannons are the real winners IMO and the ability to boost them up to 12" more makes them an auto-include.
-Troops. Longbeards, Hammerers are still likely to be the go-to units. All the army wide rules make Ironbreakers more appealing than they were, but they just don't compare 2A, S6 Dwarves. Likely to see the inclusion of more supporting units however, like Firedrakes or Rangers, instead of 3 Busses.


Game against:

Thane, BSB, -1 to Hit, T6, 3 Wounds, 2+ Armor Save. Super Tank.
Runesmith, Horn of 6" Devastating Charge. Dispel Scroll.
13 Crossbows
28 Longbeards, Full Command, Shields, Rune of -D6 Charge
28 Hammerers, Full Command, Rune of +2 Dispel
Cannon
3 Gyrocopters
2x 5 Slayers, Champion, 1 Rune of Fire
2x 10 Firedrakes, Musician + Charmpion + Missile Launcher each
Flame Cannon

2400 Points

Highlights:
-One round of shooting completely destroyed the center of t-3 elves. Flame Cannon + 1 Gyro took 21 Swordmasters down to <5, and he only got a partial hit with the cannon (!). 20 Firedrakes opened fire at 12 Silver Helms and killed 9. Went from 3 combat threats to 1 first turn of the game.
-BSB + 6 Dragon Princes went through the first unit of Firedrakes, even though I had Banner of Eternal Flame, before the DP charged the second unit and got ground down over 3 rounds of combat. WS5, and S4 with 4+/6+(2+ against fire in this case) is no joke for a shooting unit.
-Hammerers went from 28 to 7 between a Comet landing and shooting in a single turn. Able to mop up their points before the game ended with Bolt Throwers and BSB, which meant the Dwarves lost by a narrow margin.

Thoughts:
-Dwarves still, obviously, suffer from being slow but now actually want to fight a mid-game battle rather than a turn 5-6 one. With shorter, but more powerful, shooting attacks (Firedrakes, Flame Cannon especially) controlling turns 3-4 feels like it will be crucial for success more-so than it was. Also feels like controlling the middle of the board is more important, giving the Flame Cannons, Firedrakes, and Gyros more time to work their magic.
-Gyrocopters are pure awesome. Misdirecting, flanking, balls of death that fly. Good in so many circumstances and a whole lot of fun to play with / against. If nothing else, these I think will make more people play Dwarves / enjoy playing Dwarves because they have something to move (!).
- Warmachines have been finagled a bit, but overall remain unchanged in their damage potential. Where before it was 1 Cannon, 2 Grudge Throwers with Runes, 2 Organ Gun, I think it will be 1 Cannon, 1 Vanilla Grudge Thrower, 2-3 Gyrocopters, 2 Flame Cannons. Similarly costed and a whole lot more versatile.
-Banners. +2 to Dispel and the 5+ bubble-Ward versus Shooting are probably mandatory. Means that the BSB probably isn't going to be playing a role in combat, besides just trying to stay alive.
-No Lords was not only fine, but better. For the points, the amount of toys my opponent would have lost would have been just too much. For point denial-lists, likely to still appear, but for all-comers, I don't see them being as useful as more war machines, Firedrakes, or Gyros.

[Bastor]

Dla tych którzy jeszcze nie widzieli:

Runy banerowe (nie wszystkie)

Master rune of Groth One-Eye
Koszt: 75pkt.
Jednostka ze sztandarem oraz wszystkie jednostki w 12" od sztandaru - dostają Stubborn

Master rune of Stromni Redbeard
Koszt: 75pkt
Jednostka ze sztandarem oraz wszystkie jednostki w 12" dostają dodatkowe +1 do Combat Result

Master rune of Vallaya
Koszt: 65pkt
Jednostka posiadająca sztandar w szeregach daje graczowi +2 do prób dispella. Dodatkowo w każdej własnej fazie magii każdy czar RIP jest automatycznie dispelowany na 3+ (osobno rzuca się dla każdego czaru)

Master rune of Grungni
koszt: 60pkt
BSB dostaje Ward Save 4+.
Dodatkowo każda jednostka w 6" od sztandaru dostaje ward na 5+ na cały shooting i magic missile

Rune of Slownes
Koszt: brak danych

Pierwszy run: -D6 od zasięgu szarży zadeklarowanej na oddział z runem
Drugi run: szarżujący MUSI dodatkowo odrzucić najwyższy wynik na kościach przy próbie szarży
Trzeci run: Jeśli mimo powyższych 2-ch wróg dojdzie w kontakt - podlega zasadzie ASL

[wrogu]

Brzmi sensownie.

Wg. plotek to jeszcze ciekawe jest to, że: orunować się da tylko hand-weapona, nie ma opcji przerzutów armour save i shieldbearerzy daja +2W i coś do save

Edit. ASL fany na tej runie ze sztandarem, ale z I hamków dalej będą biły jako ostatnie a reszcie pewnie nie robi wobec potencjalnego kosztu.