9th Age

[ślivek]

A dam wam przeciek. Pojawiło się 40 minut temu na wewnętrznym forum 9th Age do rozpatrzenia przez RT przed wdrożeniem. Teraz RT sobie obgadują to. Coś z tego może zostanie wdrożone coś nie. Nie wiem ile z tego widać też na publicznym KoE forum więc jeśli to spam i o tym już wiecie to przepraszam.

This topic is not for discussion.

To conform to the RULES

This topic will be used only for presenting the final version of a Proposal to the RT and for receiving their response.

@fjugin @lagge @arthain @el rey @Sir_Joker

DESIGN CHANGE

Current Lance formation doesn't make much sense. As are the Horses which are doing the majority of the damage and not the Knights. Our proposal is add this new AWSR, and remove the clause of "mounts get impact hits(1) from lance. This will show that our knights are the bests of the world using lances.

Jousting
When charging with Lances models with this Special Rule have +1 Initiative and Impact hits(1). Characters with this rule get +1 Initiative and Impact hits(D3) when charging with Lances, and Impact hits(1) with any other weapon. Models with this rule can switch to another weapon on second round of combat after charging with a Lance

Observations:
Characters are slightly better and benefit from being in a unit and in the front rank.
Is a slight nerf to Aspirants (horses are S4, while knights are S3).
Make our characters a bit better on the charge
Is not something not proven as ogre have a similar mechanic.
Makes us able to remove the Heavy Hand Weapon clause about the second turn.
If we have to pay 10 points for characters lance, make it worth being a bit better.
Now you only get impact hits with Lances, so Questing Knights will not have impact hits. So we can make them even more different of other knights, giving them 2 attacks and we the "I don't care if you charge me" cavalry.
The clause of Impact hits(1) with any other weapon for characters is needed, if not only characters with lances would be used as you would lose the Impact hit with nice Strenght in a unit. Putting this clause makes you choose between quest code with better steady damage or no code with better charge or grail code for nice charge and other bonuses.

To further diferenciate Knights with this change some adjustment are also neccesary.
Kingdom Knights S4
Questing Knights A2 and monstruos support

Then Knights will be like this:

KA. Great charge range. Low cost. Low strengh impact hits. Unable to grind due to ws3 s3 ld7. Uncontrollable after charge. 20 points with heavy armor.

KK. better impact hits. Great infantry grinders thx to S4 and HHW. 24 points.

QK. No impact hits. Good Monster killers. Moderate ginding vs non inantry. Good 3 wide or 6 wide. Dont mind getting charged by low ini troops (aka monsters). 26 points.

GK. Uber knight with 2 wounds and T4. Cannot break big infantry due to lack of ranks. Good vs everything else. 40 points (we can lose holy or magical to reach that)

BALANCE CHANGES

1. Blessing compared to plate armor is not good enough, Armour piercing hurts us a lot. Proposed fix: Blessing becomes 5++when prayed. Streamlined and less complicated. Default 6++ ward should be in models rules instead of blessing, so we can flee or decline challenges and retain at least the 6++.
2. Our horn of anti flyers sucks compared to skaven banner. It was never broken or too strong. Proposed fix: Gives us back the Lightning attack. Maintain points costs or even reduce.
3. Virtue of sacrifice is not liked neither used: Proposed fix: Makes the unit joined by character Charge an extra D3 (stacks with impetus)
4. Virtue of Purity is too pricey and not used, and the random is not liked: Proposed fix: Reduce points costs. Or remake to: MW D3+1 (AP6), Holy, and Flaming Attacks. And cheaper like 45 points
5. Virtue of Knightly Temper. Proposed fix: Remove lance limitation, to allow more builds possible.
6. Virtue of Unyelding is too pricey to be used: Proposed fix: Reduce points costs to 60-50.
7. All virtues should cost 10-25 (depending on virtue) points less if purcashed by a paladin, except Saint and maybe Compassion.
8. Barded warhorse for LORD 35 points Proposed fix: should cost 30 points as HE one, or VC one. We don't have access to 1+ mundane
9. Barded warhorse for PALADIN 15 points Proposed fix: should cost 25 points as HE one or VC one. We don't have access to 1+ mundane
10. Beloved and MR. MR should be cheaper, at least same point cost of item. if not unicorn will always be must take. Proposed fix: Beloved should have this added: and ignores all penalties when refusing a challenge. MR should cost the same as magic items.
11. Prophetess need protection. Prophteess Option to buy Ethereal.
12. Castellan needs more rules to be used. Proposed fix: Gives insignificant units while joined: Fight in Extra Rank(militia), Multiple shots(bowmen), Quick to fire(yeoman) .Option to purchase engineer upgrade.
13. Bowmen. Compared with empire we are costed equally. BUT we are ws2 and less LD. Proposed fix: LD6, give us back light armour as default equipment.
14. Miltia: Needs LD6. IF goblins and skaven don't maitain their low LD, why should us? Proposed fix: LD6.
15. Knights Asprirant impetuos is too fire and forget and uncontrollable. Proposed fix: Impetuos: When you declare a Charge, add D3 to charge distance and ITP. Must overrun and pursue unless a Grail Code character is within the unit.
16. Knights Aspirants need inspiring following the bump our LD theme: Proposed fix: Knights Aspirant get Inspiring.
17. Knights Aspirant need option to heavy armour at a fair price by community request Proposed fix: +2/+3 points for Heavy Armour as option.
18. Yeoman. Compared to imperial reuter cavalry. For 4 points more they get uber fire on impact and better equipment and BS4!! Or compare with striders of lust, at 10pts per model and with better stats, movement and poison. Proposed fix: Yeoman get scout and maintainvanguard at same point costs.
19. Grail knights need 2 wounds to fullfill their role of super cavalry. And makes the combo better with life. Now they are to pricey ( except units of 3) and big numbers of kingdom knight do the job better Proposed fix: Make them 2 wounds. Point cost of first 3 models 40. Following models 42. If we have to lose Holy Attacks or Magical Attacks to reach that, we accept.
20. Related to previous point. Grail code. Proposed fix: Characters with grail code get additionally +1 LD and Holy Attacks.
21. Questing code. Proposed fix: ITP only on combat. So they can flee if they want (need point 1 approved).
22. Balista: Proposed Fix: LD6. Adept LD7 WS2, BS3. BS for aprentices BS3. Basic 45 same as goblins. Adept is extra wound for + 15 points. Upgrade to (Ordnance) + 10 points.
23. Trebuchet. Brandy barrels with Skaven catapult theirs is better and costs 25 poitns less. Compare trebuchet with warpstone cannon theirs better with only 35 points difference for a huge benefit. Proposed fix: LD6

- Basic S3(9). 80 - 85 points 3 wounds. BS aprrentices BS3. Adept gives 4 wounds for + 15 point. Adept better stats, WS2, BS3, LD7.

so basic we equal to goblins, both gobos and ours should be 80 or 85 or be 90 and dwarves and skaven go up as their are better in close combat and stub.

- Burning Brand-Oil* Barrels S3 3"template. Ap(6). Flamming. Gives Flammable. +30 points

so we get equial to skaven, we trade toxic for ap(6) and magic for flaming and giving flamable

- Mason Rocks S4(10). Armour piercing(1) +50 Points

so we are equal to dwarves at S4 armour piercing(1) and pay the same for the upgrade


* A peasant discovered (By accident and dying) that merging brandy and oil make a quimical reaction that ignites both when moved strongly. xD

[Hoops]

Dzięki Ślivek!

[Szczwaniak]

Śmiesznie by było widzieć twardych grali.

[kangur]

Jeśli grale dostaną po 2 woundy i cena sie nie zmieni to ja to łykam

[Szczwaniak]

40 pkt za 4tafa 2 woundy itp 5++ 2 ataki monstrous support 9ld, 5 ws chyba styka

[kangur]

Wystarczajaco

[Hoops]

Mam nadzieję że grale nie dostaną dodatkowego wounda. W obecnej formie spokojnie dają sobie radę, choć mogą mieć +1T.
Faktycznie mogliby mieć możliwość dokupienie HA da to jakieś pole manewru, ale jak dla mnie taktyczne dwie 6tki w obecnym stanie są wystarczająco dobre.
Balista z BS2 jest absolutnie nie do wystawienia.
Z trebuszy raczej rezygnuję w obecnej formie. Zagrałem, przetestowałem, ubawiłem się. Coś tam ugrały, ale przeniesienie punktów ze strzelania na inne jednostki jest bardziej opłacalne wg mnie.

[Bretonnian]

W obecnej formie to są za drodzy. Dodatkowy wound byłby okej za takie ptk. Szczególnie że już VC mają 2 woundową kawalerie i tam spisuje się ona dobrze.

[Stan]

Trudno porównywać te unity, VCety mają wskrzeszanie.
Plus u nich jest dosyć ciasno w rare.

[Bretonnian]

A u nas nie? Trebki, balisty, Gralowcy

[Stan]

Z tego co słyszę trebki poszły w odstawkę a balisty to tylko 130pkt, zostaje 470 na grali.
W VCetach masz bloodki, morghasty, wraithy, hexy, mortisa, dark coach, terrora i ołtarz

[Bretonnian]

Trebki są strasznie drogie fakt, ale niestety ciągle są jednym z niewielu remediów na klocki elitarnej piechoty jakie mamy

[Szczwaniak]

Za to w specjałach się ciaśniej zrobiło. Można się zgadzać lub nie ale queści są op w stosunku do ceny i porównania z realmami np a to tylko różnica 3 pkt i slota.

[Bretonnian]

Op? W jaki? Jakoś dalej ich nie widzę z ich 3+ savem.

[r@fix]

Lance mamy w corach jezeli chcesz coś lepszego to gralowcy sa lepsi. Za to jeżeli chodzi o slot special to teraz mamy dylemat pegazy juz nie sa fastem wiec chyba trzeba szukac pkt na paziow na kucach

[Szczwaniak]

za 26pkt. Gość 5ws 4sił 4 i zwykły ma 4ws 3s i s1 do tego itp i wybór broni, na coś słabego 2+ a na potwory siła 6 multiple 2 to zdecydowanie lepsze od corowych typków, jest relikwia która może zamienić chłopstwo w błogosławioną armią, i durendalem którzy zabierają stubborna, bodyguarda i są wyporni.

[r@fix]

Ale questy nie są w corach

[Bretonnian]

Koniec rozmowy.

[Hoops]

Jak mam wybierać między trebakami, jednym trebakiem lub gralami to biorę 12 grali. Wpycham do nich Lorda z temperówką, BSB z Virtue of the Saint i dużą Babę na unicornie z lightem. Robi to więcej niż balisty z bs2 które strzelają mega kiepsko lub trebusze które mogą nie trafić.

[Bretonnian]

Problem jest taki że nagle zaczynasz grac jednym unitem, bo pozostałe lance, te corowe to teraz statyści jeszcze bardziej niż wcześniej. Masz w tym wypadku jeden unit na 2 - 3 unity na podobnym poziomie przeciwnika. Bez trebków ciężko coś zrobić np z klockiem 30 egzeków z kotłem