9th Age

[ślivek]

Wrzucam propozycję z drugiego tygodnia działań. Niestety na forum nie mamy przekreśleń to zamieniłem na podkreślenia. Zwracam uwagę na fragment oznaczony tagiem spoiler - to osobista opinia jednego z członków ABC KoE który stwierdził, że mimo, że większość się z nim nie zgadza i tak napisze swoje zdanie

Poza tym odpowiedź RT do tego była szybka:

This proposal doesn't conform to the rules, on various points. Please amend it and present it again

This topic is not for discussion.

This topic will be used only for presenting the final version of a Proposal to the RT and for receiving their response.

Changes from what is on google doc in red. Explanations in green. Removal is underscored.

1 - Blessing
Models with this Special Rule have Ward Save (6+). After all units are deployed, the Kingdom of Equitaine player maydeclare that his troops are praying. If so, the opponent may decide who wins the roll for first turn,and all models with this Special Rule gain Ward Save (5+) against attacks with Strength 5 or greater . This Special Rule benefit of praying is lost for any model that flees.

Blessing compared to plate armor is not good enough, [url='http://www.the-ninth-age.com/lexicon/in ... synonym=38']Armour piercing hurts us a lot. And in a game were Lethal Strike is so common against cavalry we need the extra protection. Also is streamlined and less complicated this way. The 6++ staying is to give us some protection even when not praying and don't penalize too much for tactical retreats. This shouldn't translate in point cost increase.

2 - Inspiring
Models with this Special Rule have the Inspiring Presence rule even if they’re not the General, but only models with the Insignificant Special Rule may receive this Inspiring Presence and it’s range is only 6”. Characters and Champions Models with this rule will make theirselves and his unit lose Inspiring The Blessing Special Rule if they decline challenges.

As we are semiforced to challenge but we don't get any benefit from it. Make it declining not that harsh. Also rules affecting themselves rather than other rules is better design.

[spoiler]I also think we should have stubborn when winning a challenge until end of turn, however other 2 members disagree. Stubborn fits nicely and is fluffy. This will also stop absurd situations like a orc warboss and a goblin charge your lord on a knights lance. The goblin challenges, if you accept with champion your units dies from warboss and your lord flee. If you accept with lord you kill a goblin and your lance get destroyed and your lord flee. If you decline you lose inspiring and part of your wardsave. Feels bad designed. This will make sure that there is some odds to a round 2 for the epic fight between the warboss and a lord, while still letting the warboss kill the knights on round 1 while lord is smashing the gobo for insulting his honor. Also stubborn in challenges will make lone paladins desirable again, which currently lack use. We only get drawbacks for not being honorable, lets reward honorable play. Is not abusable as opponent can decline challenge or not dare to challenge.This shouldn't translate in point cost increase.[/spoiler]

3 - Grail Oath
Models with this Special Rule have a Ward Save of 4++ against Poison, Toxic and Lethal Strikes, always count as having prayed and have the Immune to Psychology, Magical Attacks, Holy Attacks, and Ward Save (5+) Special Rules. Characters with this special rule get +1 Leadership.

More resistance to toxic poison and lethal is fluffy for grails and gives them a specific role. Grail Paladins having less LD than Grail Knights is wrong. This fixes that. Also is fair with the price we pay for grail code 30-20 points. compare with mark of change on a daemon prince for similar effect and only 10 points. This shouldn't translate in point cost increase, if the 4++ ward vs specials have to be dropped so be it or just 2++ vs toxic so it mirrors fireborn nicely.

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4 - Trebuchet and Balista, merge in one entry: Siege War Machine that has to be a balista or a trebuchet

Due to the nature and size of Siege War Machines they may not move once they are placed after deployment.
Stats: 3 wounds. Aprentices BS3 LD6. Adept LD7 WS2 BS3 spear. Adept is extra wound for + 15 points.

OPTION 1 for siege war machine
Balista: Basic 45 same as goblins.. Upgrade to (Ordnance) + 10 points. Maybe we should be S7 for 45 points, as we are rare and them special...

OPTION 2 for siege war machine
Battle Trebuchet: Masonary Rocks S3(9). 80 - 85 points

Compare Brandy barrels with Skaven catapult theirs is better and costs 25 poitns less. Compare trebuchet with warpstone cannon theirs better with only 35 points difference for a huge benefit.So we make a redo to normal catapult with upgrades we get equal to goblins, both gobos and ours should be 80 or 85 or be 90 and dwarves and skaven go up as their are better in close combat and stubborn

The Trebuchet may fire in with either of it's ammunition types and chooses before firing.

Upgrade 1: Burning Brand-Oil Barrels S3 3"template. Ap(6). Flamming. Gives Flammable. +30 points
we get similar to skaven catapult with this at same price, we trade toxic for ap(6) and magic for flaming and giving flammable

Upgrade 2: Siege Rocks S4. Armour piercing(1) +25-35 Points
Option to damage heavy infantry. If the choose ammunition is not possible, then s4(10) ap(1) 50 points, so we are equal to dwarves at S4 armour piercing(1) and pay the same for the upgrade

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5 - Castellan (need option for crossbow) can choose up to one upgrades:
Siege Trait upgrades:

Lowborn leader (one of a kind ) 20 points (compassion virtue that have this effect will suffer a redo in week 3)
Model has Inspiring and the Hold Your Ground Special Rule even if not being the Battle Standard Bearer, but only models with the Insignificant Special Rule may benefit from this Hold Your Ground

Master at arms 20 points
Must deploy in a unit and cannot leave them. Unit gets specified special rule: Fight in Extra Rank(militia), Multiple shots(bowmen, crossbowmen), Quick to fire(yeoman)

Rousing Orator 20 points
Must deploy in a unit and cannot leave them. Unit gains Devastating Charge or Thunderous Charge. Choose when declaring a charge.

Master Builder (One of a kind, Castellan Only) 10 points
Model get the Engineer special rule. You can get an additional Open Field War Machine.

Castellan needs some utilities to be useful. Currently not taken at all.This mainly benefit peasants that need a little boost to be used. Also a knight with compassion also get access to one of this but will have to join insignificant unit (disscussed in week 3 design). Take in mind all this buffs are for peasants and durendals only, because:

Durendals(foot knights) become insignificant.

[Hoops]

Takie tam pitolenie...

[kangur]

Zmiany zajebiscie mi sie podobają,co prawda dotyczą chlopstwa ,ale juz mozna rozkminiac rozpiske opartą na wieśniakach . Castelan inzynier z opcja 3 trebka WooW , albo balisty .Nie jest to finalna wersja pewnie ,ale Grail Code takze spoko

[ślivek]

KoE week 4

@arthain
@fjugin
@el rey
@Sir_Joker
@lagge

Week 4 KoE

DESIGN

Castellan


Castellan 40 points:


M WS BS S T W I A Ld
4 4 4 3 3 2 3 2 7


Armour:
Light Armour

Peasant Special Rules:
Insignificant

Special Rules:
Lowborn: May only join units with Insignificant rule and gains any of the specials rules of the unit they join.

Master at Arms: Any army that contains a Castellan may take any number of Battle hardened Levy Militia.
Options: pts
May take Magic Items up to 25
May take a Longbow 2
May take a Shield 2
May take a weapon (one choice only)
Halberd 2
Spear 2
Light lance (if mounted) 2
May ride a Barded Warhorse 15

Change master at arms to .
Model with this rule has Weapon master and Multiple shoots(2) Special rules. Any insignificant unit gains this rules while the Model with this rule is in them.

Add can get ONE of the following siege traits:
- Lowborn leader (one of a kind ) 20 points (compassion virtue that have this effect will suffer a redo)
Model has Inspiring and the Hold Your Ground Special Rule even if not being the Battle Standard Bearer, but only models with the Insignificant Special Rule may benefit from this Hold Your Ground

- Rousing Orator 20 points
Must deploy in a unit and cannot leave them. Castellan and his Unit gains Devastating Charge or Thunderous Charge. Choose when declaring a charge.

- Master Builder (One of a kind ) 15 points
Model get the Engineer special rule. You can get an additional Siege War Machine in rare slot.

Reason:
This guy cost the same as a goblin boss but has -1 S, -1 T, and -1 attack. .He is 10 points less than and EoS engineer, while the enginyerr has heavy armour and much better equipment options, better units to protect him, and more variety and better warmachines to enchance. With our enginyeer upgrade we will be 5 points more expensive and less protected. We are ok with that, he is not a good fighter, and not a superb warmachine handler, but we want his abilities to really matter. , One of 3 playstyles was voted to be a heavely peasant army. this guy is made to make that viable.


Master at arms:
Notice weapon master is only relevant for Militia as no other insignificant unit can have variety in melee weapons, so they can be used offensively or defensively with a castellan, and without it you need to choose his role in army list building
Multiple shots(2) on the other hand only affects bowmen and crossbowmen. We are bs 3 so this is more an utility to saturate than a buff as we will be hitting on 5 minimum when using this.

Siege Traits
Lowborn leader: Neccesary so peasants can hold reliably (at ld7) without a knight nearby. Its one of a kind so cannot have multiples of this

Rousing orator: This is neccesary to give peasants list a bit of punch. useless if charged mediocre when charging as peasants have ws3 max and s3 max, however with magic support they can surprise the opponent.Also the clause about not leaving the unit impedes him to be used as redirector. If the selected buffs are not liked, we are open to hear what would RT do to improve peasant heavy list countercharges.

Master builder: After merging our 2 warmachines in one entry this is neccesary to make a defensive peasant or heavu infantry list viable, to force opponent to come to us. Its good that default buff only affects peasants as discoruges lists with 3 warmachines and knights as you will not able to protect castellan (he cannt join knights) and you need insignificant unit to recive his utility skills.


BALANCE

1- Grail Oath
Current:
Models with this Special Rule have the Immune to Psychology, Magical Attacks, Holy Attacks, and Ward Save (5+) Special Rules.
Add this:
Characters with this rule get +1 Leadership.
Grail Knight Ld 9 but Grail paladins ld 8 dont make any sense, neither fluffwise nor design wise. needs to be fixed. Grail knights with plain ld 8 is not an option. they are the bravest and more elite of the ideals of chivalry. Considering holy attacks are worth 15-20 points, its overcosted on lords by 10-15 points (other bonuses are not relevant enough). The +1 Leadership is mainly relevant for generals (lords mostly), so this should not increase its price, or +5 points at max.


2 - Knight’s Sword
Close Combat Weapon. +1 to wound when attacking models with Small height. Can be combined with a shield to gain parry.
This is a small boost to durendals. Give them Knights sword as default. They are currently unused because has proven underwhelming.This will give them a nice anti infantry role.We need more antiinfantry units if we want people to stop abusing trebuchets, as we have no good alternative to its function


3 - Beloved
Make it only work for lance formation, so only works mounted in knights and reduce price to 15 for prophetesses and damsels.
We request a price drop, unicorn for 60 points makes this redundant, while a horse(20) mr2(35) and beloved cost(30) = 85 pts. An hero for 80 points protects better than beloved.
Should be cheaper.

15 points for damsels and prophetess and beloved
Or
20-25 points and also giving the count as prayed for blessing to unit joined

Other armies pay 30 for protection because they can protect with 40 wounds of infantry, we should pay 15 because with this change we can only protect with cavalry, which is 15 wounds max, and have more counters than infantry. Fluffwise we can justify durendal knights dont protecting them because they hate magic. (they could even get Hatred( magic users ).


4 - Humility
Current:
20 points
A model with this virtue has the Insignificant Special Rule, has his Inspiring Presence increased to 12” and has the Hold Your Ground Special Rule even if not being the Battle Standard Bearer, but only models with the Insignificant Special Rule may benefit from this Hold Your Ground.
Change it to
15 pts
A model with this Virtue gains Insignificant and +1 Leadership and increases their Inspiring Range to 12in". Additionally this character may choose a second virtue. Must be on foot.
Was liked but not used at all. moved effect to siege traits and give flexibility. It makes you go on foot so it makes infantry list, currently suboptimal, a bit better. If +1 Leadership is not liked, remove it and give master at arms and make it Free-5 points


5 - Daring
Current:
25 points
Can only be used in a unit with the Impetuous Special Rule or by the model itself. The Character or unit he is in retains the Impetuous rule for all charges declared.
Change it to
25 pts
Adds D3 to unit charging range (stacks with impetus). When a Model with this virtue is removed as a casualty in close combat may make single close combat attack immediately using same weapon choice used in Combat. All bonuses from weapon used and special rules apply to this attack.
Wasn't liked or used at all, needed a redo. People wanted it so it can give the extra charge to any unit.


6 - Valour
Current:
40 points
The bearer will always issue a challenge if possible. This challenge must be accepted (if possible). The Character may reroll all missed to hit and to wound rolls in a challenge.
Proposed fix:
reduce points for paladins due to worse stats. So it costs 40 / 30.
20 points for the must accept, but we are not so killy like vampire or chaos to pay that much for the rerolls this virtue.


7 - Might
Current:
45 points
When charging and using a Lance as a Close Combat weapon, every unsaved wound caused by the character with normal attacks generates another attack at the same Initiative step. These do not generate further attacks. In addition, the Character gains the Devastating Charge andThunderous Charge Special Rules while using a Lance as a close combat weapon.
Change it to:
45 / 35 points
On the first round of combat, every unsaved wound caused by the character with normal attacks generates another attack at the same Initiative step. These do not generate further attacks. In addition, the Character gains Hatred.
Changed so you have benefit if get charged and work with all weapons so you can use it with questing vow.


8 - Audacity
Current
50
The Character rerolls all failed to hit and to wound rolls and gains the Stubborn Special Rule when in base contact with an enemy that has higher unmodified Strength or Toughness than himself.
reduce points for paladins due to worse stats. So it costs 40 / 30.
Too expensive isn't getting used.


9 - Renown
Current:
60 points
The Character gains the Armour Piercing (1) and Lightning Attacks Special Rules. In Close Combat, when this Character rolls a natural 6 to wound against Medium height and Large height models, his attacks instead gain Armour Piercing (6) and Multiple Wounds (Ordnance).
Change it to:
Model get Lethal Strike in close combat. On a roll of a natural 6 to wound in close combat that wound gains Multiple wounds( Ordnance ).
Was not liked and too expensive. we come back to our roots which are liked to almost anyone. doing ordnance and only on 6's is balanced. We remove the ap(1) and lightining so the reduction on points is justified.


10 - Piety
Current:
75 points
The Character and all non-character models in the same unit has its Ward Save increased by +1, to a maximum of 4+. Can only join Cavalry units.
reduce points for paladins due to worse stats. So it costs 75 / 65, and make it cavalry or infantry units.
this could allow use inside of Peasant units as well as Durrendals.


11 - Devotion
Current:
65 points
The character must ride a Barded Warhorse or be on foot. It gains the Not a Leader Special Rule, and cannot be the Battle Standard Bearer or take Magical Armour. The Character also gains the Otherworldly, Ethereal, Unstable, Terror, and Ambush Special Rules.
Proposed fix:
Remove otherwordly, add stubborn, add clause it cannot join units. 60 / 50 points for costs.
Was underwhelming while testing it and too expensive. Give it stubborn to halve wounds from CR in exchange from the protection from otherwordly and a price and slight decrease.

12- Dragon lance
30 points
Type: Lance. Attacks with this weapon have the Flaming attacks Special Rule. The wielder has a Breath Weapon (Strength 3, Flaming Attacks).
Proposed fix: Make breath S4 as all other breaths for 30 points. example chimera.

13- Relic effects change effects and make it so One upgrade MUST be taken.

Current:
Icon of the Lady (40 pts)At the start of your movement phase apply one of the following effects to all friendly units within 9”: gain Immune to Psychology and reduces incoming attack’s Armour Piercing effects with 1 or they can reroll failed Ward Save rolls of “1” until the start of your next movement phase.

Proposed:
Icon of the Lady (40 pts)
At the start of EVERY turn (your and opponent) apply one of the following effects to a friendly unit within 12”, last until end of turn: Reduces incoming attack’s Armour Piercing effects with 1 or Distracting and Blurry. Casters in the target unit get +1 to cast.

Current:

Saintly Vigil (50 pts)
At the start of your movement phase apply one of the following effects to all friendly units within 9”: they gain Fight in Extra Ranks Special Rule or they can reroll failed rolls of “1” to wound until the start of your next movement phase.
Proposed:

Saintly Vigil (40 pts)

At the start of EVERY turn (your and opponent) apply one of the following effects to a friendly unit within 12”, last until end of turn: AP(1) or +1 to hit. Casters in the target unit get +1 to dispel.

One upgrade MUST be taken. Giving area had to much combability. And the only effect worth taken was the ward save or reduce ap one. This way they are mirrored, one offensive one defensive. If distracting blurry and +1 to hit is too good for knights. we can make that part only affecting insignificant units and the other non-insignificant ones.


14 - Until other books dont pay for MR:
Give mr1 free and default to damsels and prophetesses.Or +5 points at max.
Upgrade to mr2 for propetesses 20 points

[kangur]

Przy przeglądaniu następnej wersji rzucił mi sie w oczy dostęp czarki do opcji White magic ,to jakis błąd?

[Milczek]

Złożył ktoś coś sensownego uwzględniającego wersję 0.10 ?

[Dębek]

Tak. Złożyłem figsy do pudełek.
K...a, poziom ciemnoty na forum 9th age sięgnął zenitu. Cieszą się z jakiś durnych bonusów, które każdemu, kto ma więcej zwojów mózgowych niż kura są po prostu zbędne.

Zboostowali nam Hipka. Szkoda tylko, że to zawsze jest, był i będzie dość klimatyczny wybór. Model za circa 400 pkt, którego nie sposób uchronić przed ostrzałem inaczej niż trzymając za obeliskiem to zaiste mocny punkt tego booka.

Fajnie, że można składać pancernych bohaterów na pegazach, no ale marna to pociecha skoro na taki luksus nie będzie nas stać.

Virtue miały być bardziej uniwersalne, a zostały takie same. Podbijacza warda i eteryczność jest fajna, ale koszt mają miażdżący. Z tych combatowych spoko wydaje się cnotka do pojedynków i to quasi red fury, zważywszy, ze teraz w kolejnych turach lord może wziąć do walki kosę z bonusami do siły.

Grail vow 2 razy droższy od marków chaosu, a do tego pełen zbędnych pierdół. ITP, po co, skoro szef jeździ w oddziale. Magiczne ataki, po co, skoro biorę magiczną kosę.

Za totalny nerf uważam to co zrobili z dużą magiczką. By wystawić taką samą jak poprzednio, trzeba tylko wyczarować 65 pkt ekstra. Ja mam z tym spory kłopot.

W corach dramat, chyba, że ktoś lubi klimaciarsko, na chłopach, to ma pełen wachlarz możliwości.
Erranci z 3+ savem i obowiązkiem gonienia i overrunowania to jakiś słaby żart. Dali itp podczas szarży i niby ma być super. Ciekawe tylko w co nimi wjeżdżać. Gobliny z dzidami lub halabardnicy posiekają ich na kawałki w 3 prostych ruchach.
Erranci z 2+ savem to już istna wisienka na torcie. Stary errant kosztował 20 i nie musiał gonić. Nowy kosztuje 22 i gonić musi. Świetna robota.
Kotrzy jako jedyni trzymają poziom, no ale zbyt przegięci byli, więc teraz tylko 1 mogą latać z magiczną szmatą.

W specach z braku laku chyba trzeba będzie brać yeomanów. Pegazy nawet fajnie rozwiązane. Jest mutlum opcji, no ale wielkiego powiewu świeżości w tym nie zobaczymy. Pomysł Furiona, by piechota bretońska cała była w corach i aby można było każdy klocek boostować relikwią nie przeszedł przez ciasne umysły twórców AB. W konsekwencji piesze rycki i pielgrzymi odpadną w przedbiegach. Queści nadal za drodzy i nadal za słabi. Pomysł ze skirmishem dla nich to już istna szraczka legislacyjna. Nie można było zrobić 2 prostych zasad:
- weapon master, MW 2 na wszystkie monstrousy i monsery, do tego 2rak i HW dające +1 do siły. Dali na za to testy ma 3 kościach i kolejną broń, któa zbija im save do 3+. Dzięki temu queści wpisują się w ogólny zarys tego booka - zasady dla debili, dla których najważniejsze jest by nie zdawac za wielu panik, a że nie ma za bardzo czym udeżyć, to już nie jest wielki problem.

Na koniec rary. Grale po 40 pkt/szt. Najśmieszniejsze jest to, że niezależnie od kosztu pewnie będzie trzeba ich brać. Maszyny masakra. Gorsze treby kosztują o 110 pkt więcej niż poprzednio. Póki co maszyny nie mieszczą mi się zupełnie.

Po paru rozpach widzę, że mam na stole jakieś 20-30% mniej woja niż miałem. Wszystko co było mocne balansuje obecnie na granicy grywalności, bonusiki w stylu baba w środku lancy, darmowy bsb, darmowi championi zabrani, wszystko co ma jakiś sens jest bardzo drogie, zboostowane jednostki klimatyczne, których przydatność jak zwykle bardzo boleśnie zweryfikuje meta.

[Bretonnian]

Dębek +1 Niestety, ale tak to wygląda. Ja już dość mam grania gorszym bookiem niż przeciwnicy. Chyba czas przerzucić się a inny system

[Dębek]

Polecam bolt action.

[kangur]

Zawsze jest jeszcze Furion .Bardzo fajnie grało mi sie na jego zasady i pewnie powróce do nich.

[r@fix]

Polecam bolt action.

no właśnie też wchodzę w ten system

[ślivek]

Dębek - przecież wszyscy pisali, że będą nerfy po całości. Wszystkie booki chcą poprzycinać (nie mam pojęcia po co skoro równie dobrze mogli by po prostu zmniejszyć pułap punktów).
Dziwię się tak gwałtownej reakcji - przecież to beta jest a nerfią wszystkich.

[r@fix]

Jak czyta się forum tego projektu to człowiek myśli sobie że z tej mąki chleba nie będzie, może to jest beta ale generalnie widać w jaką stronę to wszystko zmierza...

[Dębek]

Jak zapytałem autora booka czemu queści to taki kwas, to mi odpowiedział, że rolą questów jest polowanie na potwory i jeżdżenie w niebezpieczne miejsca w poszukiwaniu grala. Dlatego mają testy feara i teroru na 3 kościach, forest stridera i MW 2 na monstery.

Jak się zapytałem czemu zrezygnowali z frenzy na errantach z revening hordes, to mi odpisał, że jak erranci będą mieli frenzy to nikt nie będzie brał realmów.

O czym my zatem rozmawiamy?

[Bearded Unclean 'Un]

Wiele z tych nerfów to element globalnych cięć, które dotykają wszystkich armii, np kwestia pojedynczych, magicznych sztandarów w core.
Chcieli obniżyć generalny power level jednostek w grze, żeby bardziej spłaszczyć różnice między ścierwem a elitami.
Na prawdziwy balans pewnie i tak przyjdzie nam poczekac az do lata...

[Mishry]

Mam nadzieję, że jakoś w lato po sukcesie Total War: Warhammer GW wyda 9 edycje i wznowi wszystkie armie. Taki plan nie wydaje sie wcale bardzo głupi...
Bo jak czytam 9th to wydaje mi się, że żadne balans-booki nie są w stanie dorównać ostatniemu GW dla Bretki.

[Crusader]

Debek weź nie płacz tylko zgłoś się do kreowania zasad zresztą wszędzie poobcinali i trzeba na wszystko patrzeć z perspektywy mety, która jest jeszcze totalnie nie znana. Breta to specyficzna armia do kreacji

[Glonojad]

Dębek - przecież wszyscy pisali, że będą nerfy po całości. Wszystkie booki chcą poprzycinać (nie mam pojęcia po co skoro równie dobrze mogli by po prostu zmniejszyć pułap punktów).
Dziwię się tak gwałtownej reakcji - przecież to beta jest a nerfią wszystkich.

Tyle, że Bretonia i tak była wystarczająco znerfiona.

@Crusader: to nie ma sensu. Kluczem nie są bowiem ekipy tworzące poszczególne księgi, tylko Komitet Centralny - który ustala tak durne dogmaty, jak "dwurak ma dla każdego kosztować tyle samo" oraz "na koszt maga nie ma wpływu ani jego wytrzymałość, ani ilość szkół magicznych do których ma dostęp".

[Hoops]

No nie wiem. Dla mnie ona dopiero teraz robi się mało gięta. Jeżeli wbijasz maski tracąc zasadniczo nic za każdym razem to trochę coś jest nie tak. Nie twierdzę że goście którzy tworzą podręcznik nie są matołami bo to widać chociażby po tym co napisał Dębek. Maszyny są nie do wystawienia i też gram bez nich, Queści jak wyżej. Czapa totalna. Erranci są jako 5tki lub 6tki. Pegazy obecnie są chyba ok choć nie czaję czemu w WE orzeł jest jeden dla bohaterów i jako jednostka a my mamy dwa rodzaje pegazów z czego ten "lepszy" jest wolniejszy ergo gorszy. Chłopki to klimat nic się nie zmieniło. No i tak jak Crus trzeba będzie popatrzeć na to wszystko obczajając resztę podręczników.
Ja tam się nie spinam i cierpliwie czekam do przyszłego roku, choć już mnie męczą ciągłe poprawki bo nie mogę pograć miesiąc-dwa na jednej rozpisce sprawdzając ją przeciwko większości armii.

[Glonojad]

Kolega z Rosji wstawił na forum 9 zestawienie sił armii - Bretka była dokładnie ostatnia.