1+Artur pisze:Fial to by był dopiero, gdyby balansowali ilość modeli w unit-cie, w oparciu o ilość modeli w pudełku buhahahaahCylindryk pisze:No nie, bo jeśli to ma być faktycznie "następną edycją WFB", to nie może być tak, że kupuję pudełko 6 Crusherów i nawet nie jestem w stanie ze wszystkich skorzystać. Podobnie jak nie mogę skorzystać z 6 DO...
Fail. Nie strasznie, nie decydujący, ale po prostu fail.
9th Age - WDG ogólnie
Moderator: JarekK
Re: 9th Age WoCH
Hej to jeszcze raz przeczytajcie o co tu chodzi. Praktycznie wszystkie zmiany teraz będą takie, że będą zabierały a nie dawały. Taka polityka była ABC WDG, że boostowali wszystko nad miarę a teraz będzie to zabierane aby było zrównane mniej więcej do dobrego poziomu w ciągu najbliższego tygodnia. Na ile się uda wyrównać zobaczymy.
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swieta_barbara
- habydysz
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- Lokalizacja: Jeźdźcy Hardkoru
Niektóre ich pomysły są ok, ale wydaje mi się, że nie przyświeca temu jakaś spójna wizja. RT ich też mocno blokuje.
Ja bym pyknął takie marki:
MoW: frenzy
MoL: ap1
MoP: -1 WS w styku
MoC: +1 cast, hellfire
Mają takie fajne gotowe zasady, a udziwniają - co to w ogóle jest Mark of Change?!
Ja bym pyknął takie marki:
MoW: frenzy
MoL: ap1
MoP: -1 WS w styku
MoC: +1 cast, hellfire
Mają takie fajne gotowe zasady, a udziwniają - co to w ogóle jest Mark of Change?!
O, ward 3+ wrócił 
Haha, ok gift podbija do max 4+. Bez sensu 
@fjugin @arthain @Sir_Joker @lagge @el rey
A
Mark of Wrath
Arthain: As I already mentioned, I prefer +1A. More unit-centric, easier to keep controlled, easier to calculate and address. For the Ld part, either nothing (best), Immune to Fear (better) or Frenzy (worse), but not ITP (worst)
Fjugin: I'm ok with both
Lagge: ITP instead of immune to fear. +1 attack seems too strong but I really dont like the +1 to hit either, mainly because it scales with ranks. My vote therefore goes to 1, But I do not like the option.
El Ray: A1, but rather have ItP instead of just fear or just normal Frenzy.
Sir Joker: No, I think both effects are too good. First, Wrath should not flee, therefore immunity to fear should beimmune to psychology instead - getting both
As we said we, ABC, dislike ItP. It is a massive buff for Barbs/Warriors and gives nothing to Favoureds. Since you cannot flee it forces you into big units, death stars, that don't need fleeing. At the same time it makes that death star immune to panic, fear, everything. Don't forget we also want Wrath to be skilled fighters, not mindless blood frenzied warriors. I do see "Cannot Flee as a Charge reaction", but as a massive drawback to facilitate a good boost.
Two months ago we wanted Frenzy with Ld test to restrain Overrun. As you can see now it would not be broken, it would actually be an OK mark and Community voted it. I could still see Frenzy without overrun (must pursue) as Wrath. And yes we think we will have to come back to this sooner or later. +1A is a can of worms for smaller units, +1 to hit would be much better for this army. Especially now with the new Parry.
Chosen Marks
Arthain: Works for me, although I'd rather see this whole Uber-marks dropped completely (ideal) or reduced/simplified
Fjugin: Yes
Lagge: + in S/T is so god damn strong. I dont like this mechanic really. I would prefer if they replaced their mark with this mark.
El Ray:Not a fan of +1M to charcters joining.
Sir Joker: Remove chosen marks. At least it has to replace the effect of the basic mark bonus.
Since our Chosen Gift ain't going forward we only want Lust to change +1 Initiative to AP(1). This should be no problem due to changes in Brutes (next).
We see Lust with AP(1) on par with Pest and Wrath. Change is for completely different play style.
B
Brutes:
Arthain: Fine on concept. Except: Mark (too cheap, due to Uber-Mark), should be 14-15ppm at least (that's 5ppm per wound). Considering that the base mark is already worth 2ppm per wound and the uber-mark is better than the basic mark). Weapons (too cheap some of them, like GW and Flails which should cost like 8 each) and shield (which should cost 6-8 pts)
Fjugin: It's a step in right direction. I'm willing to try these
Lagge: joker +1
El Ray:I don't think they should have M4, they are not faster than normal warriors.
Sir Joker: +1 but no to access to Uber-marks as long as they provide such a powerful effect in addition to the ability to stack with regular marks.
Here are the new ones with your comments addressed
Point cost benchmarked to Minotours and no more Basic mark:
Brutes 144 pts 4 models, may add up to 4 models 36pts /model
M WS BS S T W I A Ld
Brutes 5 5 3 4 4 3 4 3 8
Alliance: Chosen of the Dark Lords (Unbound)
Armour:Plate Armour
Special Rules: Brute Force
Options:
All models may replace Unbound with another Mark 14 / model
All models may take:
Additional Hand Weapons 3 / model
Flails 4 / model
Halberds 7 / model
Great weapons 7 / model
Shields 3 / model
May upgrade one model to each of the following:
Champion 10
- may take Magic Weapon up to 25
Musician 10
Standard Bearer 10-
may take a Magic Banner up to 50
Chosen Mark is now more of a mutant mark. Only Favoureds can balance and have both of them (and a Gaint ). We don't get Shields being more than 3pts/model with the new Parry. They will mostly be used for +1AS against shooting.
E
Daemonic Wings as Gift
Arthain: A great way of addressing the DP
Fjugin: Straight up better than flying carpet, which was deemed too strong on models such as the chaos lord. Yes to move this to a gift. But not ok to give access to this for all mdoels. Make if daemon prince only for now and we can discuss this further after the Dec 8th update
Lagge: deamon prince only. OK
El Ray:fine
Sir Joker: I agree with your proposal but currently the flyer spam is a real problem therefore limiting it to DP only for the meantime seems appropriate.
Next proposal: add "non mounted models only" to Daemonic Wings.
Flying carpet was deemed too strong on Chaos Lords? I have never saw a list with that, in my life. We always had better mount options than Flying carpet. Heaving Wings (for 50pts!) on an Infantry lord is not broken, problematic were Mon.Inf characters with 4+ wounds, not 3 wounds stompable Chars.
F
Remove Third Eye from Gifts (the one that gives +1 Ward up to 4++ for 30 pts) and replace with
Unholy Presence, 40 pts:
Model gains a gift depending on his Mark of the Dark Gods or Mark of the Daemonic Legion:
Wrath: MR(2), model and his unit cannot be a target of Hex and Augment spells
Change: Blurry and Breath Weapon (Strength D3+2 and Hellfire special rule)
Pest: Distracting
Lust: +2 Initiative, whenever the wearer issues a Challenge the opponent has to accept it, if possible
It speaks for itself. This also frees up two Magic Items slots (Wrath and Lust). We have to remove one anyway. Also increased price. We would love to have 4 different Gifts for this but since we are limited to max 10 we can't.
Arthain: This along with G counts as 4 different Gifts. It is undercosted. It is a design change (max 1 design per week). So while I like some of the ideas there, I have to say NO
Fjugin: No. Distracting nurgle DP was broken in 8th, we should not reintroduce this
Lagge: No
El Ray:-
Sir Joker: no
Can we get some more info which part exactly is too strong? Not just plain Yes/No. Only Fjugin said Distracting. Since you rejected Chosen Mark on Characters and we want to have non-Change DP options playable. Do not forget that if DP has Fly now it has to choose between 1+ Armour or this. Even Distracting would not be too strong because of this fact.
Unholy Presence, 40 pts:
Model gains a gift depending on his Mark of the Dark Gods or Mark of the Daemonic Legion:
Wrath: MR(2), model and his unit cannot be a target of Hex and Augment spells
Change: Ward save is increased by one to a maximum of 4+.
Pest: Blurry and -2 Initiative to all enemies in base contact.
Lust: +2 Initiative, whenever the wearer issues a Challenge the opponent has to accept it, if possible
Draft 2 of Week2 and Week3 suggestions. As it is joined into one:
Hero choice combining Barbarians caster, Warrior wizzard and Wrath Priest:
Seer 60 pts
M WS BS S T W I A Ld
Seer 4 4 3 3 3 2 3 1 7
Warlock 4 5 3 4 4 2 4 2 8
Wrath Priest 4 6 3 4 4 2 5 3 8
Alliance:
Mark of the Dark Gods (Unbound)
You may Upgrade Seer to:
Warlock 25 pts
Wrath Priest 60 pts
Warlock and Wrath Priest may take a mount (one choice only):
Waste Steed 25
Steed of Lust 20
Juggernaut of Wrath 35
Palanquin of Pestilence 40
Disc of Change 50
Warp Daemon Steed 50
Wasteborn Chariot 100
Seer
Magic: Level 1 Wizard. Can ONLY generate spells from Path of Heavens or Wilderness
Options:
May become a Level 2 wizard 35 pts
May take Magic Items up to 50
May be mounted on Warhorse 20 pts
Warlock
Armour:Plate Armour
Special Rules:Eye of the Warp
Magic:Level 1 Wizard. Generates spells from Paths of Magic that depends on the model’s Mark of the Dark Gods.
May replace Unbound with another Mark of the Dark Gods 10
May take a single Gift no pt limit
Upgrade to Wizard level 2 35
May take Magic Items up to 50
Wrath Priest
Armour: Plate Armour
Special Rules: Eye of the Warp, Mark of the Dark Gods (Wrath), Magic resistance (2)
Magic: Not a wizard; can make Dispel attempts as through he is a Level 2 Wizard (including Aided Dispel).
May take a single Gift no pt limit
May take Magic Items up to 50
May take a weapon (one choice only)
Flail 3
Additional hand weapon 3
Great Weapon 4
Hard to get them all as one choice, but some other armies have stuff like that so I guess it can work. We want Wrath priest to be more of a combat oriented since he worships Wrath.
Albo tam jest błąd albo Wrath Priest może jeździć na dysku czy slaanesh steedzie. Chyba że jest pominięta część o apropriate marku...
Seer jest ciekawy. Armia złożona na samych barbarzyńcach nie jest obecnie pozbawiona sensu a zawsze mi się taka koncepcja podobała.
Priest zrobiony na siłe. Wystarczyłaby możliwość dania takiego upgredu bohaterowi z markiem khorna.
Seer jest ciekawy. Armia złożona na samych barbarzyńcach nie jest obecnie pozbawiona sensu a zawsze mi się taka koncepcja podobała.
Priest zrobiony na siłe. Wystarczyłaby możliwość dania takiego upgredu bohaterowi z markiem khorna.
WDG - Week 5 proposal for the RT
Last week was mostly balance and since I am going on vacation for several days I am pushing this forward sooner.
A
Mark of Wrath
+1 to hit, immune to Fear, cannot chose "flee" as a charge reaction, wizards cannot join units with the Mark of the Dark Gods (Wrath)
Current
You know we would rather have this one. Cannot Flee is very important downside that would prevent multiple small Wrath units that are now possible and encouraged with +1A.
We presume you will want to see some tournaments results with the new Mark first but we would just like to open a discussion so next change can be faster, to be prepared.
B
Brute Force
All Characters with Eye of the Warp get an option for Brute force upgrade (50 / 30 pts). So we remove this as a Gift.
Brute Force
If a Unit has this Special Rule, the unit only needs to be 4 models wide to form Full Ranks.
Models with this Special rule have the Monstrous Support rule and cannot be the target of a stomp. It also replaces Mark of the Dark Gods with Chosen of the Dark Lords.
A Character with this Special Rule receives +1 Wound and +1 Movement, has 40x40 base size, cannot be mounted and cannot take a Gift.
With this Brutes can have normal Mark and Brute force Special rule will replace their normal Mark with Chosen mark. Also Brute Force characters replace basic Mark with Chosen mark which is OK since they can not be mounted or take Gifts. Even with broken Brutes no one took this characters. Price of the upgrade was increased, currently as a Gift without getting Chosen Mark is 20 points. Chosen Lord with this Upgrade would cost 10 pts more as Ogre Warlord and have T6 but one less movement and one less wound (no Stomp and no Impact hits or easy Look out Sir). Blessed that increases Toughness by one to T6 is also worth 50 points and allows mounts.
Accompanied Chosen Mark changes:
Unbound currently has Bodyguard, add: "+1 Leadership"
Add this to Lust which gives AP(1): "which is cumulative with other Armour Piercing values"
Add this to Change which currently increases Ward save by 1: "up to max 4++"
We thought through all Character combinations this could lead to and none are really broken. It opens a nice new option that is currently played by none. Lust is mainly there to stack with Razor banner. Change must be there to prevent 3++ Characters. Change Brutes are the worst of all so we presume no one will want Change Brute Characters any way. Wizard Coven doesn't work on Characters as it doesn't work on a Giant (which can also have Chosen Mark fo Change).
C
Gift revamp
Please, if you reject any, write if it is conceptual wrong, priced wrong or just plainly too strong. Not just yes/no.
Soulfeeder (30 pts)
Current
If the gifted made any wounds, at the end of the close combat phase roll a D6. If you roll 3+ the model recovers one wound.
This creates a full fledged gift. On a Warp Dragon it should not be broken: Wizard has hard time making a wound, while taking a Lord on a Dragon prevents you from heaving good magic.
Ulcerating Flesh (45 pt)
Currently as Gift:
Mark of the Dark Gods (Pestilence only). The model has Blurry Special rule. At the start of any combat round each model in base contact with this model suffers a Toxic hit.
DP or Character on a big mount all benefit from this. We know that with new Cannon rules this is even stronger that is why 45 pts.
Third eye of Change (40 / 30 pts) (currently 30 pts, can we make this "Daemon prince 40 pts, all others 30 pts" ?)
Mark of the Dark Gods (Change) only. A model with this Gift has its Ward save increased by one to a maximum of 4+.
Beguiling Chains (40 / 30 pts)
Currently as an item but we want it as a Gift:
Mark of the Dark Gods (Lust only). The Gifted has +2 Initiative. Whenever the wearer issues a Challenge the opponent has to accept it with a Character (not a Champion), if possible.
Remove Beguiling chains as a magic item. No one was taking this. Can also be taken on a Steed of Lust Hero that can hunt Wizards.
Aura of Wrath (50)
Remove this item and create a Gift
Mark of the Dark Gods (Wrath) only. Magic Weapons wielded by enemy models in base contact count as their mundane equivalent.
Wrath DP is not as strong as Bloodthirster, also this one doesn't give armour. With Fly and this you can have max 2+AS and 5+ Ward. Don't forget that Wrath DP is the most undesirable DP due to not heaving Magic levels. With new Aided cast and dispel every magic level counts.
Yes all this Gifts are a little DP centric. We were told we can't get one Gift to facilitate all of these depending on the Mark. Our characters can already get Rulebook items, while DP is short on those and needs additional options. This Gifts are still good on mortal characters and could be even better if we could have different prices for DP and Characters.
With all this we would have 9 Magic items and 10 Gifts.
D
Banner of Darkness
Current:
Three options, please vote for one or more:
1. Increase Favoureds Banner allowance to 75 points
2. Decrease Banner cost to 50, make it Infantry only, and lower Brute magic banner allowance to 45 points
3. Lower to 50 pts and write (Favoureds or BSB only)
We want this Banner accessible to Favoureds which are not played at all. To encourage Infantry play style and further emphasise their eliteness.
Balance:
Mounted Barbarians:
Lower Flail weapon costs from 2 PPM to 1
Max unit size increased to 25 if they take Mount's Protection (5+) and so loose Fast Cavalry Special rule.
Flails are not worth it with their new rule. Light spears are just cheaper and better.
Increased max unit size if they don't have Fast cavalry would open something new now that Barbarian Jarl gives Fight in Extra Ranks.
Wasteborn Chariot:
Lower barding cost to 15.
Currently it is 20 and no one takes it. Going from 90 pts to 110 points for one armour AND reduced movement by 1 is not worth it.
Alternative is to get them Plate armour by default, no Barding option and 105 point cost.
A ja mam pytanie, na które odpowiedź już padła gdzieś pewnie.
Widze, że na razie ciągle się wszystko zmienia, kiedy będzie na tyle stabilna wersja, że będzie coś można kminić i nie martwić się że za tydzień wyląduje roster w koszu?
Widze, że na razie ciągle się wszystko zmienia, kiedy będzie na tyle stabilna wersja, że będzie coś można kminić i nie martwić się że za tydzień wyląduje roster w koszu?
Barbara pisze:Może nie wszyscy się w tym środowisku lubimy, ale akurat prawie wszyscy się znamy. To że dwóch znajomych da sobie czasem po ryjach nie powinno chyba nikogo dziwić.
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swieta_barbara
- habydysz
- Posty: 14640
- Lokalizacja: Jeźdźcy Hardkoru
W kwietniu będzie już produkt finalny.
Teraz następne zmiany za ok. 2 tygodnie.
Teraz następne zmiany za ok. 2 tygodnie.
Ktoś może grał na skullach po ostatnim updacie i ma jakieś spostrzeżenia? Widzę, że poprawili je względem poprzednich wersji i po obecnej zmianie kucyki dostały jeszcze ekstra atak kosztem 1 pkt AS w sumie model wypłaca 8 ataków z siłą 5 przy założeniu że góra ma wykupione mieczyki. Zastanawiam się czy przy jakieś pomocy sztandaru da się zrobić z tego jakiś sorujący unit?
