8 Edycja Warhammera (kontynuacja dyskusji) II

[Rasti]

Wiem wiem, tylko właśnie interesuje mnie, jak oni zrobią to z tymi hitami, czy może ta jednostka będzie turlała kostkami...?

[tedzio]

pewnie tak jak z miscastem, bijesz sam po sobie. Najbardziej ciekawi mnie, czy owe uderzenia będą z asv czy nie, a może jakaś modyfikacja pancerza zależna od wielkości oddziału przez który uciekający oddział "przeskakuje". Wtedy rycerzopodobnym nie robiłoby to, przez ile oddziałów przeskakiwaliby jeżeli mieliby pancerz na 2+.

[Rasti]

Sam się zastanawiam, śledząc ciągle ten temat, co to nam wyjdzie.
Na początku słysząc o 8 edycji byłem pesymistycznie nastawiony, a teraz? Jestem ciekawy, co tam wymyślą. Póki co nabiera to trochę realizmu, choć nie zawsze

[Varinastari]

Ja odwrotnie. Im więcej słyszę, tym bardziej obawiam się o przyszłość WFB.

Jak narazie, przegięcie goni przegięcie.

[Virgo]

what's the word on plastic Bloodcrushers?
They are coming. In plastic.

[kubon]

Ja odwrotnie. Im więcej słyszę, tym bardziej obawiam się o przyszłość WFB.

Jak narazie, przegięcie goni przegięcie.

Podpisuje się pod każdym tym słowem

[Varinastari]

Aczkolwiek z finalną oceną produktu wstrzymam się do wyjścia RB. No i wypadało by zagrać parę bitew

[Szemkel]

Ja bym jednak z ocena poczekał na playtesty. Po 2 miesiącach będzie można powiedzieć jak to naprawde wygląda. IMO zmiany sa zbyt duże żeby móc je oceniac przez pryzmat obecnej edycji.

[Arbaal]

what's the word on plastic Bloodcrushers?
They are coming. In plastic.

trza kupić metalowego crushera puki jeszcze są

[patryk999]

Wrona najładniejsza,to wszystko to plastiki?

[Arbaal]

Kairos i Changeling Metal. Reszta plastik.

[eyrmin]

Nie wiem czy juz ktos o tym napisal (szukalem, ale nic nie znalazlem), wiec sie podziele...

Dzisiaj bylem w moim lokalnym sklepie GW i na rozpisce 'zajec' na najblizsze dwa miesiace maja zaplanowane na 26 czerwca granie na zasadach 8 edycji. Wiec mysle ze w tych okolicach bedzie juz mozna spodziewac sie potwierdzonych zasad.

[Kal_Torak]

Ja się dziwię że conajmniej od miesiąca nie ma potwiedzonych plot. Chyba, że obecne ploty już w większości poktywają się z tym co będzie w 8 edycji;P

[Virgo]

Ja się dziwię że conajmniej od miesiąca nie ma potwiedzonych plot.

POTWIERDZONE Z TEST PLAYA:

Army construction is moving back to percentages.
Strength in Depth/ Stepping up (models may fight in 2 ranks)
Crush attack for larger creatures
40mm models moving to 3 model-wide ranks (?)
Multiple objective driven scenarios in the rulebook
Power dice aren’t generated by the number of spellcasters. The pool is decided by 2D6. Magic users add their magic level to the score rolled. All Wizards have a chance to generate more power dice.
All missile units fire in two ranks (not just High Elves).
Autobreaking from fear or terror is gone.
Combats are strictly decided in initiative order.

Warhammer 8th Ed Rulebook to be released July 10th
Possibly going to get the pdf erratas for all armies on July 6th
Introduction games for Warhammer 8th edition starting around May 22nd (only one scenario apparently)
Copies for Staff available early May


25% min core
25% lord 25% hero.

Infantry models in the second rank can fight, with a maximum of 1A per model. - Avian/Harry.
Most special rules apply as normal. however... Whatever combination of weapons/ special rules/ spells/ whatever, infantry can only ever attack with 1 attack per model in the second and subsequent ranks.
Spears +1 rank as normal, but one attack only (fighting in 3 ranks).
Spearelves may fight with an additional rank as normal (citzen levy).

This does not apply to Monstrous Infantry, who are rumoured to fight with their normal number of attacks from the second rank (more likely).

10+ wide units attack with one rank more than normal. There are no other requirements to be a Horde. - Avian

Stubborn
If you are only engaged to the front and have more ranks than the opponent, you are Stubborn. - Avian/Harry

Unit Strength
Unit Strength is completely gone, lots of things are altered to compensate for this. -Avian

Rank bonuses
Unchanged. Up to 3.


Monstrous Creatures
40mm models moving to 3 model-wide ranks. Ogre sized models are officially being put into their own size category (finally). (?)


Striking in Initiative order
Combat will always strictly be resolved in initiative order (confirmed).


Outnumbering Enemy
There will be no CR bonus for outnumbering the enemy.

Flank/ Rear charges & Combat Resolution
Units need to have at least 2 complete ranks in order to negate enemy flank/rear. (more likely)

Parry
The hand weapon & shield combination grants a 6+ Ward Save in combat to the front only. It provides no benefit if you are attacked in the flank or rear and does not work against impact hits and crush them/destroy them attacks. This replaces the +1 to Armour Save gained by fighting with HW & shield.

As ward saves do not stack normally, you won't get any benefit from Parry if you already have a better ward save. (?)

Terror comes with a chance to run away.

Autobreaking from fear or terror is gone.

However ASF + higher initiative than your enemy: Reroll to hit rolls. So even if Swordmasters and White Lions are striking in initiative order they may get re-rolls to hit!

Frenzy
You still get +1 attack on the charge (front rank only). You may suppress charging with a leadership test. If you fail, you have to attack the closest target.

Magic Resistance
This has been changed to improve an existing Ward Save, or to grant a Ward Save to magic.

Magic Resistance 1 = +1 Ward Save against Magic. For a unit without a ward save this is 6+
Magic Resistance 2 = +2 Ward Save against Magic. For a unit without a ward save this is 5+
Magic Resistance 3 = +3 Ward Save against Magic. For a unit without a ward save this is 4+

MAGIC ITEMS

Apparently there is an absolutely HUGE list of magic items in the book… Could easily be 50+ (possibly 85). There is a chance you may not be able to duplicate most of them in a list.
10-20 items in each category.


Multiple objective driven scenarios in the rulebook
15 or so missions in the new rulebook.

Bonuses and hazards for terrain (such as rolling the dice to see how many people don’t make it out of the wood...). This appears to be D6 for every model, on a 1 a model is lost. This is only the tip of the iceberg…
Finding a magic item in the woods.

There are rules for dangerous terrain, and for some unit types different types of terrain are treated as dangerous.

Allied Forces

Forces of Order: High Elves, Wood Elves, Lizardmen, Empire, Dwarfs and Brettonia

Forces of Destruction: Chaos of any kind, Skaven, Greenskins, Dark Elves (edit. Vampire Counts may go here).

Neutral: Ogres and Tomb Kings

Categories for core/special/rare are remaining.
Special Choices: No more than 3 of the same type - Examples; No more than 3 units of Chaos Knights, or 3 units of Forsaken etc in the same army.
Rare Choices: No more than 2 of the same type - Examples; No more than 2 Hellcannons, or 2 Chaos Giants etc in the same army.

There will be a system wide errata to clear up issues for each army.
You may measure distances whenever you want.

Charging.
Infantry M1-M6 = Basic Movement value + 2D6
Fast Attack M7+ (Cavalry and fliers) = Basic Movement value + 3D6 (use 2 highest) (???????)
+1CR for charging. -Avian (more likely)

Marching.
Movement distance as normal. When there's an enemy within 8", the unit has to pass a leadership test to march. Not sure how this applies to Dwarfs.

Skirmishers
Skirmishers are now a fixed formation, with a 1 inch gap between each and every model. -
Still rank up in combat. May or may not have 360 Line of sight. (DON'T!)

MAGIC

Generating Power and Dispel Dice
Power dice aren’t generated by the number of spellcasters. The amount of dice is decided by 2D6. The active player gets the total as power dice and the other player the highest throw as dispel dice (throw 3+5, = 8 PD and 5 DD). (confirmed)

Channeling (confirmed that it exists)
Each wizard may roll a D6 and generate an additional power dice on a roll of 6.
Each enemy wizard may roll a D6 and generate an additional dispel dice on a roll of 6.
Maximum Power and Dispel Dice
Casting Spells
To cast a spell, roll 1 to 6 Power dice and add your caster's power level. EG: A Slann casts fireball and uses 2D6. He rolls a 3 and a 4 - score of 7. He than adds his Power Level of 4, which results in a total roll of 11.

Miscasting
Here is where I think we need a lot more information.
It is rumoured that miscasts are entirely gone, but are replaced by a combined irresistible force/ miscast table effectively:

When you roll a double 6 the spell is cast with irresistible force, but the Caster has to roll on the "lost control" chart, which is devastating, and far more worse than the current miscast table.


Determining Spells
Each lore now has 7 Spells. One Basic Spell and other spells numbered 1 - 6.

(As far as I have heard the 'basic' spell of each Lore is in addition to the normally generated spells, much like Invocation of Nehek for Vampire Counts).

Most spells generally have a basic and an up-powered version (more likely) – Avian

If a wizard fails to reach the casting value it is not a miscast

Spells are now categorized.

SHOOTING

Bows fire in 2 ranks as standard.
Units armed with bows, short bows and longbows fire in two ranks. Units armed with handguns, crossbows, anything else fire in 1 rank - Avian and someone else, so I'm considering this confirmed now.

Salvo Fire
A rumour I heard a while back was that units with bows (see above), could fire with more than just 2 ranks. What I am being told now is that regardless of the width of the unit, a unit with bows may shoot with an additional half a rank for every rank behind the 2nd. I.e. 12 models wide, 3 ranks (36 models). 12 front rank, 12 2nd rank, 6 3rd rank = 30 shots.

True Line of sight
Units draw true line of sight. You are considered in cover when shot at through another unit, granting a -1 or -2 penalty on to hit rolls. Note that someone else has said this is more likely as well.

War Machines
Weapons using the flame template or large or small blast templates automatically hit any model in contact rather than cause partial hits. If you are touched, you are hit. -Avian and someone else, so I'm considering this confirmed now

War Machines: There'll be no guessing anymore. You place the template (or point of impact) where you want the weapon to hit and roll normally for scatter. Take with a big pinch of salt at this stage.

Other things:

Killing Blow
Killing blow only against models in a similar size category or lower (large creature>ogre sized> infantry/cavalry sized)
(edit: apparently this is close, but not quite right). Killing blow is still a roll of 6.

Apparently still works as normal. There is something called a Heroic Killing Blow that will deal with larger things like Ogres.

Fear and Terror
When you charge a Fear or Terror causer you take the Fear/Terror test not before you charge, but at the start of the combat phase. - Avian

Apparently Fear is continuously tested at the beginning of each new turn of Close Combat, possibly resulting in the infamous 6's to hit

Crush them!
Monstrous Cavalry and Monstrous Infantry are granted 1 bonus attack with the "always strikes last" special rule, at base strength. (edit. I believe only infantry and cavalry can be hit with these, nothing else.)

From what I gather this may replace the current Impact Hits rule, but not entirely sure on how it works

Discarded:

One Save.
A model can always take an armour save. They can then take either a ward save or a regeneration save.

Saves still work the same way they did in 7th.

Terrain
Difficult terrain may be merged with very difficult.

From what I gather difficult terrain has been done away with entirely.

Cavalry still only fight in 1 rank.

Apparently not true; however the mounts in the back rank may not fight.


My own:


Scenarios are a big part of the game but it will still be possible to play normal pitched battles.

The scenario I've seen had a piece of terrain in the middle, a Chaos temple. Before the beginning of the game it was rolled who was in charge of the place. The army that rolled higher on a D6 was entitled to put one of their Core Units there before the beginning of the game. The objective was to have any (not just Core) unit there at the end of the game in order to win. The Chaos Temple allowed for 'sacrificing' the soul of a Champion/Character for random stats boost (or, on the roll of 1, a quick and painful death.)

There were mystical woods that contained unknown dangers (or possibly rewards). What exactly a wood does is rolled the first time a unit peeks its nose in there and it will retain this property for the rest of the game. For example, if a unit inside a specific wood is target of a spell, it takes a dice roll's amount of (S6?) hits, and the wood moves away in a random direction.

There are no other restrictions on characters other than the aforementioned 25/25 so it is entirely possible to have entire 'units' made up of cheap Heroes, for example Skaven, Gobbos or Skinks. Not sure if I like that though.

US has been entirely discarded. There is no more outnumbering and therefore no autobreaking from Fear/outnumbering.

Terror's Aura is gone; apparently it works now like a stronger form of Fear.

Apparently Fast Cavalry may make a free 12" move at the beginning of the game. This may allow for first-turn charges of carelessly placed War Machines.

Magic Items:

Staff of Channeling (Wizard channels additional PD at the roll of 5+ instead of 6)

Screaming Blade:
Bearer causes Fear (like that wasn't a standard item in every army anyway)

Potion of Strength:
20 points, +D3 S for one turn

Potion of Toughness:
20 points, +D3 T for one turn

(I think Teclis might like these)

When you destroy an enemy unit you can apparently either overrun or immediately reform to face the direction of your liking. This will go great lengths at improving mobility of units.

Skirmishers do now have flanks and rear like like ranked units and normal non-360 degrees view. They shoot normally from 2 ranks. However when not charging they may reform on the move as often as they wish and also MARCH AND SHOOT!!!!!

Note that while now fighting in a 'semi-formation', Skirmishers still get no rank bonus.

Since Unit Strength is gone, it can no longer be used to negate rank bonus. Instead you need a unit that has at least 2 ranks to do so. This means that cavalry as currently fielded will not break ranks.

With fighting in 2 ranks, spears, 10+ models rule and HE bonus it means that HE Spearmen will be able to strike from 5 ranks. Ouch. So much for the doomsayers that saw the army ruined. Maybe the humble HE Core will see more action soon...

[Whydak]

Jednego możemy być pewni : będzie ciekawie

Flank/ Rear charges & Combat Resolution
Units need to have at least 2 complete ranks in order to negate enemy flank/rear. (more likely)

Tylko to mi się trochę nie podoba. 10 ciężkiej kawalerii na flankę nie wystarczy do złamania szyku xD? Rozumiem żeby śmieci nie ściągały ale bez przesady

p.s. Dla moich chaośników i tak nie ma nic nie do przepchnięcia
pzdr

[nindza77]

25% lord 25% hero.

herohammer....

[kubon]

też nie wiem gdzie sie podziała ta wasza ,,edycja klocków piechoty i dużej ilości wojsk"

[Barski17]

Killing Blow
Killing blow only against models in a similar size category or lower (large creature>ogre sized> infantry/cavalry sized)
(edit: apparently this is close, but not quite right). Killing blow is still a roll of 6.

Czytając tą zasadę przechodzą po mnie dreszcze. Wyobrażam sobie Mantykorę, zabijającą w pierwszej turze walki smoka, którego będzie teraz tak trudno umieścić w rozpisce.

[theudulf]

Te 25% na lorda i tak jest do dupy, połowy lordów nie wystawisz, gdzie ci ktoś normalny na 2k wyskoczy demon lordem za 500 punktów, który goły kosztuje 450, a gdzie 4 lvl maga dla nurglity? Vampir na smoczku kosztuje ... 480 punktów.

Generalnie jak ktoś będzie chciał wyskoczyć na lordzie na ltku to kilka armii się nie wystawi lub będzie miało ich ograniczonych. Wampiry/DE/WE/ na smokach będą miały kiepsko. Woch na smoku absolutnie nie (goły 570 punktów), na mantykorze od biedy(410). HE wyskoczą, bretka też, empire spokojnie,orkowie to samo, skavy przy full punktach GSra mają 35 punktów za dużo.

PS.Zresztą kto ich tam używa, ja bardzo rzadko bo mój hipek to średnio się opłaca
PS2.

też nie wiem gdzie sie podziała ta wasza ,,edycja klocków piechoty i dużej ilości wojsk"

jak nie było tego 25% na hero i 25% lord tak można było wywnioskować. ale nie bo ktoś chce wystawić Herosów za 1000 punktów - wracamy do normalności. Ja teraz na 2k wyciągam około 43%

[kubon]

mimo że nie mam żadnego LT z KB to mi się podoba W sumie logika że jak Mantykora podlatuje go Smoka czy ogra to wbijając mu wielki kieł w serce zabija go. To samo ogry