9 ed. Lizardmen

[Okoń]

Całkiem nieźle. Dodatkowo wyczytałem, że między innymi pojawią się długo wyczekiwane sacred spawningi.

Zastanawiam się, czy sensownym oddziałem nie będzie kohorta skinków z kroxami + hero krox BSB + skink high priest na palankinie dający Hate'a na unit..

[lwieserce85]

Wreszcie bedzie można zrezygnować ze slana.
niech tylko jeszcze hero skinkow daje bs na stegadonie i jest bardzo fajny pomysl na armie;)

[Qsownik]

Zastanawiam się, czy sensownym oddziałem nie będzie kohorta skinków z kroxami + hero krox BSB + skink high priest na palankinie dający Hate'a na unit..

Już coś wspomnieli, że hero krox nie będzie mógł być w drugim szeregu w kohorcie (szkoda). No i do LoS potrzebuje aż 5 kroxów.

Całkiem nieźle. Dodatkowo wyczytałem, że między innymi pojawią się długo wyczekiwane sacred spawningi.

A to jak na razie tylko dla Saurusów. W zależności jak to wyjdzie, to może inne jednostki też dostaną.

[Okoń]

Pojawił się sneak peak z trololodonem.

Najciekawszą opcją wstępnie wydaje mi się dokupienie skinkowemu riderowi zasady Wizard Conclave (lvl 2). Szkoda tylko, że jeszcze nie wiadomo za ile i jakie miałby posiadać zaklęcia, bo dopiero te informacje zdefiniują użyteczność tego upgrade'a.

[Ziemko]

Rzekne tak - cannon, klopa, klopa cannon. O jak duzo pktow zdobylem

[Okoń]

Może nie będzie tak tragicznie. Trololodon ma być względnie tani, a poza tym cannony dostały nerfa (tocząca się po ziemi kula armatnia ma tylko połowę swojej siły oraz pocisk może zescatterować).

Osobiście liczyłem na upgrade z regeneracją, ale niestety nie doczekałem się go.

[lwieserce85]

http://www.the-ninth-age.com/index.php? ... 0-9-0-pdf/
dla mnie bomba. dyscypliny slana spawningi na zaurusach oraz rerroll na trafienia na kohortach skinkow.

[Okoń]

Całościowo odbieram booka lizaków 9th age pozytywnie.

Sporo rzeczy fajnych, część przeciętnych i trochę wyraźnie mocnych..

[lwieserce85]

Mi osobiscie bardzo ppdoba sie sztandar dajacy buffy przeciwko armiom przeciwnika (wreszcie elfy traca reroll to hit) oraz dyscypliny slana.plus 1 do casta oraz sygnaturki tez wygladaja fajnie. Dodac do tego tron plus 1 do casta i slan robi sie magiem 6 poziomu.
Łuk tyranozaura tez bardzo fajny.swarmy wychodzace z krawedzi stolu ogarniajace maszyny .ehh.tyle pomysłów.

[ironhead]

Mi osobiscie bardzo ppdoba sie sztandar dajacy buffy przeciwko armiom przeciwnika (wreszcie elfy traca reroll to hit)....

Nie tracą bo jej nie mają Lightning Reflexes to już nie jest stare ASF.
Tutaj chodzi o to, że Twoja jednostka zyskuje Lightning Reflexes.

[Okoń]

Ostatnio testuję co nieco Saurian Ancienta na T-Rexie. Z odpowiednim złożeniem itemów i rozpiski nawet w miarę daje rade.

[Kopyt]

A czy dobrze przeczytałem że monster beast ma warda od jeźdźca? Jeśli tak to fajnie wychodzi opcja z hero. Czy mam jakąś stara wersję booka

[Okoń]

A czy dobrze przeczytałem że monster beast ma warda od jeźdźca? Jeśli tak to fajnie wychodzi opcja z hero. Czy mam jakąś stara wersję booka

Jeździec na monstrous beaście korzysta z zasady Combined Profile, więc tak. Mały carnozaur może być, ale osobiście bardziej podchodzi mi monsterowa wersja.

[ślivek]

nowe Lizaki

W3 Proposals Saurian Ancients

Hi Rules Team,
@fjugin @arthain @Sir_Joker @el rey @lagge

this is round 3 of our proposals. I split the thing in 3 parts for easier handling



A) Stuff that the BB / RT approached us with that we should change:

A.1) Raptor price for Saurus Ancient goes up by +15 points (to 50 pts) and for Saurus Veteran by +5 points (to 40 pts)

Reason: requested by BB. We only increased the Raptor price for Veteran very slightly because with the new rules for shooting allocation and the fact that 14 out of 16 armies have either Bolt Throwers/cannons/Catapults (in some way) this guy is under major risk to get sniped anyway.



B) Big Change for this week:

We decided to go with the Skink Captain on foot for this week, because this guy rarely ever gets picked in any list. He is very squishy and he doesnt do much damage either, so in order to make him more attractive new routes have got to be explored.

Here is the current statline for the Skink Captain btw (40 pts base):
M6 WS4 BS5 S4 T3 W2 I6 A3 LD6

When the guy is on foot, we want him to be able to buy one of three possible upgrades to make him more attractive:

Jungle Patrol Leader: 10 points
All Skinks in his unit and himself gain the Born Predator special rule

Reason: to make hordes of Skinks more attractive as a fighting unit, he would help with that.


Jungle Stalker: 20 points
He and a unit of Skink Braves, costing max. 120 points, gain the Scout special rule

Reason: this allows you to play this guy and a unit of 20 Skink Braves with Mus., Std. as a flanker. They can threaten light units, warmachines, Wizard bunkers and stuff like that


Jungle Assassin: 35 points
He gains the following special rules/upgrades: reroll to hit against characters, Hidden, Not a Leader, I+2, Multiple Wounds (2, characters), 5+ Ward Save in close combat only.

Reason: its basically DE Assassin light, cheaper, but also significantly worse. The DE Assassin is 25 more expensive, but comes with 4++ ward save, WS9 Lightning Reflexes, his multiple wounds work against several opponents and not just chars, he comes with Throwing Stars and I9.
The Skink Jungle Assassin actually brings something to the table that SA dont have: a high Initiative super-squishy fighter that can threaten mages, BSBs and similar "normal" characters. Obviously he is a glass cannon, but only against characters (he is shit against everything else that "can fight" basically) and we feel this guy could be fun to play with.



C) Small balance changes:

C.1) Standard of Reversed Realities gets reduced by 5 points to 50 points
Reason: people very rarely pick the standard. this way its a tiny bit cheaper and Elite units like Raptor Riders and Shrine Guard actually can buy it without a BSB.



Standard of Reversed Realities: 55 pts
Depending on your opponent, the bearer's unit benefits from the enemy's army specific special rule as well as its own. See list below:
Dwarfs (DH, ID): Bearer's unit gains Relentless and Thunderous Charge.
Men (KoE, EoS): Bearer's unit gains Ward Save (6+) in close combat and Ward Save (5+) against artillery weapons.
Elves (HE, SE, DE): Bearer's unit gains Lightning Reflexes.
Dark Gods (DL, WDG): Bearer's unit gains the Mark of the enemy general. If the enemy general has no mark you may choose one any mark.
Undead (UD, VC): Bearer's unit gains Lethal Strike.
Beasts(VS, RK, BH, OK, O&G): Bearer's unit gains Fear and Impact hits (1).



C.2) Ancient Plaque goes down to 50/30 points
Reason: the HE book of the wizard tower is both better and cheaper, comparison:

Ancient Plaque 60 / 40 pts
Once per magic phase,
the bearer may reroll a single of his own power dice rolled after a casting roll. You cannot use this when casting with 1 dice or to reroll natural rolls of ‘6’.




Book of the Wizard Tower 50/30 points
Once per magic phase, the bearer can reroll a single power or dispel dice when making casting or dispelling attempt, provided the dice was not a '6'.

as you can see the HE version would still be better even if priced at the same cost.


C.3) Snake Swarms get a price decrease by -5 points per model and the Scout upgrade is included in the profile
Reason: nobody plays those because they simply suck (like pretty much any swarm). hopefully this would make them a bit more attractive

Current profile and prices are: 60 base (for 2) plus 25 for any additional
M5 WS3 BS0 S2 T2 W5 I1 A5 LD10


C.4) Salamanders Spout Venom ability gets changed to Scatter D6" (and not scatter like a catapult). A "6" on the scatter = misfire.
Reason: its a subpar choice atm, current profile:

This is a Catapult Artillery weapon with the following profile:
Range 18”, Strength 1, +1 to wound, Armour Piercing (6), Template 3" that scatters like a Catapult. The Salamander can move and fire, but not march and fire. If a misfire is rolled, consult the misfire chart but add +4 to the result rolled.


btw: This is one of the things that got nerfed relatively short before the beta release. It looks like we went too far.


C.5) Spit Poison gets upgraded to S7
Reason: its only 8" range, so your Spinosaurus need to get really close for it to work (mostly shooting at long range = 4+ to hit) plus S6 vs most monsters T6 is only 4+ to wound, so only in 25% of cases you actually do damage while you put your Spinosaurus at huge risk getting so close to the enemy. also playtesting has shown that people rarely pick this ability, so a small buff is warrented.

current profile:

Spit Poison (30 pts)This is a shooting attack with
Range 8”, Quick to fire, Poisoned Attacks, Strength 6, Multiple Wounds (Ordnance), Armour Piercing (3).


Regards
the SA team

[lwieserce85]

wiadom kiedy oficjalnie wejdzie to do użytku?

[ślivek]

8.12 planują wprowadzać te zmiany. Ale to co tutaj widzisz jest przed reakcją RT więc sporo może wyjść inaczej.

[lwieserce85]

mi sie podoba....fajne pomysły na skinkowego kapitana oraz poprawa działania salamander. droższy c.o pod weterana( bo jesli dobrze zrozumiałem cena pod lorda została stara)
wypadało by jeszcze polepszyć palaquin by był lepszy od elfiego.
to ze elfy maja cos lepszego od lizaków jest dla mnie niezrozumiałe

[Okoń]

Ceny raptorów pod kowbojów saurusowych (hero i lord) przybierają kosmiczne rozmiary. Ciekawy jestem czy w dalszym ciągu Woch będzie miał pod klepaczy lepsze i/lub tańsze mounty, common itemy oraz bazowo w cenie na gołym hero/lordzie zasadę boostującą ilość supportingów z drugiego szeregu.. O mocnych markach za prawie darmo nie wspomnę.

W najbliższym upie był zapowiadany rework tego plewnego hero kroxa, zobaczymy co ostatecznie z tego wyniknie.

[ślivek]

Week 4 proposal Saurian Ancients

Hi Rules Team,

for our Week #4 proposal we would like to adress Saurus spawnings. Some of them got changed on deadline day by you and are really not attractive, especially in the context of the SA army. Therefor we want to redesign some of the spawnings for the reasons stated below

A) Design Change: Saurus Warrior spawnings:


A1) The Vanguard spawning:

Spawning of the Pteranodon God (1 pt / model)
All models with this Spawning gain the Vanguard special rule.

This spawning doesnt really help Saurus as much as it would seem at first glance, for the following reasons:

Saurus Vanguarding up 12" are left in the middle of the battlefield without any proper support, which creates a screwed up battle line, which furthermore makes it easy for the opponent to pick the SA army apart one by one.
Saurus need support to work, especially since there are lots of models/units around that hard counter Saurus, like the metric ton of units/models with S5/6 (especially S6 completely negates the Saurus' defenses) or all units with high armour saves (1+/2+) or all the super-characters and obviously T6 monsters (S4 vs T6)
Unsupported Saurus are usually relatively easy points for the opponent



Thats why the Vanguard spawning doesnt really work for SA and we want it replaced (it was a deadline day change that you made). Saurus do however have problems with mobility and cant pick their fights, so we definitely want a mobility spawning, which leads us to our suggestion

Replace it with:

All infantry models that are in a unit with this spawning gain +1 movement. Once per game, for a single movement phase, the unit gains the Free Reform special rule (announce at the start of the remaining moves phase if you want to use this).

Reason:

Faster Saurus with +1M and the ability to actually outmaneuvre redirectors. This would directly counteract small (cheap) units of redirectors that stand at an angle and practically force the Saurus to move 1" and then do a post combat pivot, because overrun would put them in a bad countercharge position (incoming flank charge). This change would directly result in redirectors having to stand in less of an angle and would therefor increase the Saurus's chances to actually move forward since overruns would be less of a drawback.


Its the same problem with all M4 infantry here basically, you spend 2-3 turns actually getting over there, then you get blocked by redirectors and the juicy targets get out of the way/flee turn 5/6. That spawning would directly counter that tactic since it would force overrun "paths" to be less disadavantageous for Saurus.


I really hope you consider that one, because that would be a huge step towards viability for Saurus.



A2) The Utility spawning:

Spawning of the Croxisaurus God (1 pt / model)
All models with this spawning gain the Strider (Water, Forest) Special Rule and +1 Initiative.


Nobody ever picks this in a competitive list and we only put it in because Pip Hamilton kinda demanded it. I had my doubts about the usefulness of that one from the start. The problem with this one is:

- your opponent knows that you have Strider (Water,Forest) so there is no surprise and the effect on the battle is very limited
- I3 really doesnt make much of a difference for what is basically a unit that fights in a big block. If they got I5 that would be a different story, but there are very few I2/I1 opponents and so the benefit of this is too situational. It really doesnt matter that much if Saurus strike at the same time as the enemy or after them (except against squishies like elves, but that would require I5 and that would be weird), since there are a lot of them and you almost always can strike with full attacks (as any other big block of infantry does as well in 95% of situations)


We want to remove this spawning and replace it with something that actually has some value. Just this time we want to get this right and make it a choice that people actually consider when building a tournament list.

Spawning of the Anurid God: 45 points
The unit becomes a Wizard Conclave (Level 1) that knows one randomly determined spell. Roll a D3:
1: Flaming Swords (Path of Fire)
2: Enchanted Blades (Path of Alchemy)
3: Blessing of Amhar (Path of White Magic)

Reason:
Saurus being able to support themselves via Combat buff spells would actually make the unit viable.
We went with a random spell, to prevent spell stacking, which can be problematic in some cases.



A3) The FIER spawning:

Spawning of the Tyrannosaurus God (1 pt / model)
All models with this Spawning have the fight in extra rank special rule.

This spawning was changed by the RT on deadline day as well. We wanted a toned down Monstrous Support (max. 2 supporting attacks) at 3 points per model.

We would like to replace this with:
-1 Attack and the unit gets Great Weapons 2 pt / model

that would put them at 13/model, which is the same as Greybeards, who dont have born predator, but WS5 and a bunch of other special rules. Both have 5+AS in CC and T4 and S6 in CC.




B) Balance changes

B1) Saurian Raptor Riders special unit price from 160/36 to 160/32

during your round 2 feedback you guys said that once Characters on Raptors get a price increase (which we suggested in our round 3 proposals and I expect you guys to agree), we can get a fair price for these raptor riders.
We went with 32 per model, since that was what arthain suggested in Round 2 feedback

This unit, without characters, is hardly worth 36pts/model. More like 32.




B2) Maceosaurus with Sun Engine price: -10 points (from 130 to 120 pts)
(the Sun Engine gives all units within 6" +1 WS)

with the new rules for parry, the effectiveness has gone down quite a bit. Especially Saurus benefit a lot less from this now and Weapon Master Temple Guard as well. Ever since they price was increased (drastically) to 130 pts nobody ever picks this any more (check the SA forums and battle reps in the last month), so we think we went too far anyway, regardless of the new parry. WS4 parry and WS5 parry is kinda useless now, also see Arthains comment in the parry thread:


We only feel that WS4 might be left in a awkward position, but they still benefit somewhat since they can now hit WS5-shield on 4+. We had no better solution and hoped to adjust this forther down the road through fine-tuning specific entries.




B3) Alternate Way of Thinking discipline gets price reduction by -10 points (from 50 to 40)

The Anurid High Priest knows one additional spell. You may choose to generate this spell from a different Path of Magic (one that the Anurid High Priest can usually choose), but you must note on your army roster which Path you choose for this ability.



It has been a common complaint on the forums that this is overcosted. If you feel -10 is too much we might as well also go with -5. In this state you are just better off with taking a lvl1 skink priest, who costs 60, and comes with +1 to channel and the ability to carry an arcane item.



B4) Skink Braves can buy an additional 20 models when they dont have any Croxis in them

that would put the maximum unit size to 60, which would actually lead to a viable skink fighting block, especially if you take the poisoned attacks upgrade. We hope you guys consider this, because we think the unit would be a viable option. 40 Skinks (without croxis in them) just isnt enough, since they die in droves with WS2 T2.
That would also be well within the boundaries for suggested unit sizes / cost. A unit of 60 with Poisoned attacks would cost 360 points (+ Full Command = 390).



B5) Higher State of Mind discipline gets replaced by Contemplations discipline:

The Anurid High Priest has the Ethereal special rule but cannot be the army’s Battle Standard Bearer or General.

nobody ever took this, simply because its bad. the no BSB or General thing is a killer for this ability. Never seen a tournament list with it.

We want to replace this with an ability that is a huge community request, the Contemplations spell switch thing for White Magic, like in 8th:

Contemplations discipline 55 points
The Anurid knows +1 Spell and has to generate all his spells from Path of White Magic. When the Anurid successfully casts a White Magic spell he may choose to forget that spell and generate a new spell from a lore that he has access to at the end of the magic phase.

[Okoń]

Wygląda to całkiem fajnie.

No może poza tym spawningiem z czarującymi saurusami, bo to jakieś brednie są.

Zobaczymy co z tego przejdzie, ale bardzo podoba mi się spawning z +1M i możliwością włączenia zasady free reform raz na grę. Razem z bannerem +1M takie saurusy mogłyby już spokojnie dotrzymać kroku skinkom i stegadonom.. Dyscypliny na slanna też spoko.

Btw, dzięki ślivek za dobrą robotę z przeciekami.